What ever happened to RESPECT

[Potapko]

There is a reason that Paul was convinced that he was "the worst sinner". Paul continually saw how he fell short of the truth, and so he was constantly seeking God's will in his life. Paul only breathed fire and brimstone before his conversion. After which he preached unconditional love and the gospel that changed hearts. Paul never drew lines in the sand... his was a mission of inclusion, and not intolerance.

Well, for some reason Paul wrote:
Titus 3:10-11
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Truth without love is harshness, love without truth is heresy.
Bill Gothard

 

[H2Andy]

dude, your truth is not my truth. kindly respect that.

you can believe whatever you want. but so can i, ok?

thanks

 

[Potapko]

what is hateful and intolerant is to try to ram that
belief down other people's throats who don't agree
with you.

I can respect that. But please tell me what defines ramming it down someones throats? Is it simply telling them something they may not want to hear? I am asking sincerely because I think this has become the politically correct battle cry. If I don't want to hear it and you tell me, you are ramming it down my throat. I do not accept this definition. If I try to speak to you about your need for a SAvior and you tell me to go away, and then I begin to berate you and won't quit, this could be construed as forcing the message on you. (Of course I mean anybody, not you directly )

We often use the example of a burning house. If I was walking past your house at 2 in the morningand saw it on fire, I would beat on the door until you came out. If you stuck your head out the window and said, "I do not believe you, go away and leave me alone" should I quit and leave? For those of us who are fully convinced that judgment day is coming, and that the majority are either ignorant of the fact, do not believe it, or simply do not care, we have no choice but to keep yelling "fire".

Sorry if that is offensive. :furious: :evilo: :grip_n_ri
I will pray for those in the path of the storm.
Jeff

 

[Green_Manelishi]

dude, your truth is not my truth.

You must be a lawyer.

Following your argument to its (il)logical conclusion why should anyone care that Hitler killed Jews, Hussein killed Kurds, Khmer Rouge killed everyone, Hutus kill Tutsis, the Chi-Coms overran Tibet, the "Dear Leader" starves his own people, the whites in SA practiced Apartheid, Slobadan wacked whomever, Amin killed ....

Each is merely obeying his or her own "truth".

 

[drbill]

I stopped following this thread when it turned towards religious debate. However, it seems to have retained a fair degree of respect which was the initial subject.

My most religious experiences involve diving in the kelp forest cathedral on Sundays. In part it is because of the inflexibility of some in the local church, in part because of their judgmental nature. While raised within a religious family, and carrying forth the core values I learned during that period of my life, I do not wish to be surrounded by these inconsistencies WHEN they don't seem to be inconsistent to the believers.

Some of the best Christians I have met are those who are very aware of their own fallability, and very forgiving. They seem to be more consistent with the core values I learned during my upbringing.

It is the human element of church rather than the core beliefs that makes me seek my spiritual world elsewhere. To those who adhere to those core beliefs, my respect. To the rest, judgment is not mine.

Doc

 

[bwerb]

I think what some of you are missing is that "sinners" were draw to Jesus...the self righteous were repelled by him...hmm...

 

[BIGSAGE136]

I can respect that. But please tell me what defines ramming it down someones throats? Is it simply telling them something they may not want to hear? I am asking sincerely because I think this has become the politically correct battle cry. If I don't want to hear it and you tell me, you are ramming it down my throat. I do not accept this definition. If I try to speak to you about your need for a SAvior and you tell me to go away, and then I begin to berate you and won't quit, this could be construed as forcing the message on you. (Of course I mean anybody, not you directly )

We often use the example of a burning house. If I was walking past your house at 2 in the morningand saw it on fire, I would beat on the door until you came out. If you stuck your head out the window and said, "I do not believe you, go away and leave me alone" should I quit and leave? For those of us who are fully convinced that judgment day is coming, and that the majority are either ignorant of the fact, do not believe it, or simply do not care, we have no choice but to keep yelling "fire".

Sorry if that is offensive. :furious: :evilo: :grip_n_ri
I will pray for those in the path of the storm.
Jeff

An example if I may. You may notice that I have held my posts neutral as far as belief, faith etc. for many many reasons, however, for point of emphasis I would like to say that I am a fervent Christian.

The passion of Christ...The Movie...I got my own message. It differs from many others. I saw what God may ask of any of us in his name for whatever reason. Others saw the pity of punishment. I have had more than one person disagree with my opinion to the point of not speaking.

Hold your beliefs dear, and most importantly live your beliefs. But under no circumstances can you make someone accept what you perceive.

 

[H2Andy]

Is it simply telling them something they may not want to hear?

well, assume you belive there was no Holocaust (there certainly was... i'm just saying, assume that's what you
believe) and you go up to someone and start telling them
that, and they say "Stop, I dont' want to hear this."

do you have a right to keep talking? I mean, they simply
"don't want to hear" what you have to say. Does that
give them the right to tell you to shut up?

You bet.

so to answer your question, yes. everyone has the right
to not want to hear what you have to say. end of story.
finito. the end.

(unless, of course, they are your wife, in which case they
have the right to tell you exactly what they think no matter
how much you don't want to hear it)

 

[H2Andy]

You must be a lawyer.

yes and proud of it

Following your argument to its (il)logical conclusion why should anyone care that Hitler killed Jews, Hussein killed Kurds, Khmer Rouge killed everyone, Hutus kill Tutsis, the Chi-Coms overran Tibet, the "Dear Leader" starves his own people, the whites in SA practiced Apartheid, Slobadan wacked whomever, Amin killed ....

Each is merely obeying his or her own "truth".

dude, there is a difference between (a) belief and (b) action.

you can believe Murder is not wrong. Scary, but hey,
that's your truth and there's not much i can do about it.

however, if you murder even one person (not to mention
a million) you have violated the law, and you will reap
the consequences. and i hope they lock you away for
ever.

murder is against the law. thereis no need to "believe" this. just check the law books.

genocide is against international law. no need to "believe" this. just check international law,
particularly the sections on Crimes Against Humanity.

now, is Jesus Christ the Son of God. where is the law on that?
You say yes and I say no. Is Muhammed the last Prophet
from God? some say yes, some say no. Is the Buddha the
road to enlightment? Zen Buddhism?

at this level, your truth and my truth are no more valid
than each other. you can't prove i am wrong, and i can't
prove you are right.

 

[Potapko]

I must agree with you according to Scripture h2.
1 Cor. 14:38
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

This was Paul's suggestion as well.

They have the right to ask you to shut up, or they have the right to walk away. But ......freedom of speech is still in the constitution.