What ever happened to RESPECT

[Kim]

There is no denying that horrific events in history were directly caused by misplaced religious zeal, but that does not mean we condemn the institution of religion.

I believe that a lot of people do condemn the institution for exactly these reasons. They have lost the respect that they might have had due to the actions of the institutions. One recent example is the massive damage done by the child scandals that have rocked the Catholic faith to it's core.

Have a great day, but then almost none of you are up yet.

You too - (but then it's already 3.15 pm here - so I suppose I've been up for hours - someone has to keep an eye open.)

 

[The Chairman]

There are too many hypocrites in churches!

And I for one, refuse to leave.

There is a popular bumper sticker... "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

Unfortunately, that sentiment is COMPLETELY wrong in my way of thinking.

It should read... "God said it, that settles it, I believe it!"

Too often we put words in God's mouth, and wonder why the world views us as being "unreasonable". Yet we justify our pride by assigning "Godly" motives to our disposition.

There is a reason that Paul was convinced that he was "the worst sinner". Paul continually saw how he fell short of the truth, and so he was constantly seeking God's will in his life. Paul only breathed fire and brimstone before his conversion. After which he preached unconditional love and the gospel that changed hearts. Paul never drew lines in the sand... his was a mission of inclusion, and not intolerance.

Respect for other's beliefs means that we fully understand that they have a right to believe anything. It does not compel us to label those who disagree as "Liberals" or "dopes" or whatever. On the contrary, Paul became all things to all men... that some might come to understand God and so be saved. He didn't label, but embraced instead.

Being a true fundamentalist means getting back to the fundamentals of your beliefs. For me that is Faith, Hope and Love, but the greatest will always be Love. The main thing is to keep the main thing as the main thing.

 

[BIGSAGE136]

Being a true fundamentalist means getting back to the fundamentals of your beliefs. For me that is Faith, Hope and Love, but the greatest will always be Love. The main thing is to keep the main thing as the main thing.

Bravo. I like that, and consider it well said. Sometimes simplicity is the most confusing veil.

 

[medic_diver45]

I think you all have made excellent points in that, just because a lot of people in churches are morally bankrupt doesn't mean that everyone is. That is how I feel as well: I won't assume you're trying to scam me just because you're a religious person, but (unless you happen to be literally glowing) don't expect me to assume that you are a great person with no faults (which is what a lot of religious people like to think of themselves (and a lot of atheists too)). I take everyone with a grain of salt, and try not to judge prematurely and be nice to them even if I don't like them. It's like I said before, lots of people try religion, and many cling to it like a drowning man to a life preserver, but very few "get it right", remembering as many of us have, that the unconditional love and tolerance aspects are the most important parts. It took me several years to come to grasp with the idea of why people are so focused on the Crucifixion....the act itself and not the reasoning of the act- people seem to lose sight of the why and become fixated on act (and as demonstrated by the backlash of a recent movie, who is responsible); here's how I look at it (right or wrong) the most important thing is not the how or who, but the why: Jesus never complained, never tried to avoid his fate...he went to his death knowing that he was fulfilling his purpose in life (to die for the redemption of the souls of all mankind). The debate that the Passion of the Christ started over who was to blame is one of the more ignorant that I have come across: People blaming the Jews for the Crucifixion is pointless.....an exercise in basic stupidity- I don't care who did it, since they are LONG dead and had been punished for any sin that they may have created long before I was ever even though about. BUT, the people who directly nailed Christ to the rough hewn lumber of the cross, the Romans, did it because they viewed Jesus as a threat, as a rebel, incroaching on their rights to rule with an iron hand- hmmmmm, sounds like what a lot of churchgoers advocate (maybe not death, but certainly gross ill-will to an excessive degree) towards those who don't agree with them. Just food for thought.....

 

[medic_diver45]

And I will close with that: my main point in all of this, that many people need to watch how they characterize others, since in anothers eyes they themselves may not fall from the very thing they claim to abhor.

 

[bwerb]

What I find so utterly sad in the Church is the number of people who really have become modern day Pharisees and teachers of the law. The message is lost on them today in just as great a way as the message was lost on the leaders of the time way back then. (Reminds me of the quote: "church...why would I go there, I feel bad enough about myself as it is...why would I want to be made to feel worse.")

True Christianity is about breaking down the walls which separate and truly loving others. Reaching out to those who need it...regardless if YOU like them or not. It is a HUGE challenge, and more often than not, I fail at this. I believe that the core of Christianity is recognizing the Grace that has been extended to you, and in turn doing all you can to extend this gracious attitude to others. Grace was free, the problem comes when people start acting like they earned it and demand others to earn it to. Legalism and "Religion" are two of the biggest millstones around most Churches necks.

Pete, you have spoken truth here.

 

[Scubaguy62]

I have really enjoyed this thread; it has been quite edifying!

Pete, Big Sage, Andy, Bob, I love you guys! Diving Preacher & DM that goes for you too, even though we disagree, I respect you enough to say that.

I don't know what the next 24 - 36 hrs will bring, but we have a Cat 4 Hurricane bearing down on us, who has decided to shift its track and it looks as if it will make landfall about 40 miles north of where I live, and if it shifts south even more, well....

DivinPreacher, DM, if I can only ask you guys keep my wife scbababe and I, Pete, Sage, Andy, Scuba_Jenny, GrierHPharmD, Marvel, and all of the remaining of my buddies from the Florida Conch Divers forum in your thoughts and prayers, it will certainly be appreciated!

Sage, Pete, you guys be safe! I'm only a bit PO'd that I had to come to the office this morning, but hopefully we'll get to leave once the warning goes up.

God Bless everyone!!!!

 

[bwerb]

So Steve...is your summary more or less along the lines of "stop trying to remove the spec of sawdust from your brother's eye while you have a telephone pole sticking out of your own?"...

 

[H2Andy]

But if you say, the Bible is absolute truth and the Creator God is in control of all things and we are expected
to obey Him. This is hateful and intolerant.

not at all. this is what you believe, and you are entitled
to that belief.

what is hateful and intolerant is to try to ram that
belief down other people's throats who don't agree
with you.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

BUT, the people who directly nailed Christ to the rough hewn lumber of the cross, the Romans, did it because they viewed Jesus as a threat, as a rebel, incroaching on their rights to rule with an iron hand-

No, the Romans nailed Him to the cross because the Jewish leaders viewed Him as a threat and wanted Him dead. So, they trumped up some charges that would encourage the Romans to sentence Him to death. It's so much neater if someone else does the dirty work.

But the important thing is that noone took His life. He willingly sacrificed it. Mere mortals have about zero power over God.