Weighting a bp/wings

[SeaJay]

Okay, so let's say I'm going the bp/wings route.

We've all discussed the concept of ditchable and nonditchable weight. PADI teaches that ditchable is important, but DIR teaches that if you're properly buoyanced and trimmed from the outset, ditchable is only important so that you can swim up after ditching.

...Given that I can swim up a full tank without ditching weight, when I'm properly trimmed and buoyanced, even from depths of 130', I think I'm going to opt for forgoing the concept of ditchable weight.

...So I'm considering how to get properly weighted in a bp. In freshwater, with my tropical gear on, I could need as little as 6lbs, and as much as 8. A SS bp, no matter what brand, is generally 6 lbs, and I could effectively use either no STA (Pioneer wings), a Koplin lightweight STA (1 lb.) or a Halcyon STA (2 lbs.) I'm not crazy about FredT's two piece design. That would give me 6-8 lbs, perfect.

In salt water, I could use anywhere from 12 to 16lbs. The way I see it, I could use a 6-8lb. v-weight or p-weight in addition to using different STA's to get perfectly trimmed and buoyanced.

I like Halcyon's stainless bp, but am going to have a hard time justifying cost. I like FredT's plate a lot, but I understand it's got a harder "bend" through it, and I can't say whether or not I'd like that. I like the Koplin plate's reputation for fit, but it does not have the holes I want to hold a Halcyon hard pocket on the right side... So I (or he) would have to customize it some.

In short, does anyone see any problem with this setup? I'm still in the planning mode, so I thought I'd run it by ya... Especially you, UP.

I DO plan to use the Halcyon storage pack for a lift bag... Will this fit on any of my choices? I know that I'd have to customize the Koplin plate with holes that would allow me to attach the Halcyon pocket...

Anyone have anything to say about FredT's angles and finish? I like the idea of Halcyon's polished plate, and FredT's pictures look like the finish of the plate is totally uncared for. I hear that the Koplin plates have a beautiful satin finish on them. Also, what do people say about the "bigger angle" of FredT's plates?

I plan to use this rig only for singles. When I start doing doubles, I'll need to get another wing... And will probably end up getting another plate to go with it, just so that I don't have to switch all the time.

Recommendations?

 

[leadweight]

Several months ago I did the math on this. If you are going to dive singles with a BP and want the Halcyon pouch, just buy a Halcyon Pioneer system. That way everything is in one box and your life is simplified. Also, the premium for buying all Halcyon is not that much with this combo. In any event, eliminate cost differences from your decision process as they are not significant at this point.

To take another variable out of the process, I would start without the STA and see if I were pleased with the performance of the integrated STA in the Pioneer. It also seems that the simple choice is to start with a weight belt. Later, as your needs develop you could try some custom balast alternatives.

You did not say if the weighting that you required was with aluminum or steel tanks. It makes difference of 5# or more, depending on the tank.

As far as the ditchable weight issue goes, being able to swim up a rig with a nonfunctional air cell is only one part of the equation. I do a lot of boat diving and like to have something that I can drop at the surface in case I get stuck out there and the seas get nasty. Just something to think about.

Anyway, take things one step at a time and see how they develop. Right now it is just not necessary to solve every possible problem in advance. In fact one of the nice things about modular gear is that it is possible to change it around and adapt to different diving applications.

 

[raxafarian]

one thing to keep in mind is the following:

Even though the SS bp weighs 6 lbs., I ended up dropping more than that when I switched from a jacket bc. In fact, I started out by taking 6lbs off my belt. I sank like a rock. I took 4 more off. Better. 2 more off. Very close... could maybe drop another lb. or 2.

So you can't just say a 6lb plate will let me take 6lbs off my belt. Most bc's have alot of "built-in" buoyancy, so you will end up removing more than 6lbs from your belt when switching to a SS bp. In my case I ended up dropping 12lbs.

Using an AL80, jacket bc, 2 piece 7mm, hood, and gloves, I was wearing 32lbs on my belt. I could not decrease that or I'd be fighting to stay down at my safety stop. I'm 215lbs.

Using an al80, bp/wing (pioneer 36), and same exposure wear, I'm wearing 20lbs on my belt. Switch to a steel lp95, and now I have 14lbs on my belt.

Just something to consider. If you are only wearing 6-10lbs with a jacket bc, a ss bp might make you negative even wearing no additional weight. In this case, an AL plate would be the way to go.

 

[ElectricZombie]

SeaJay once bubbled...
I DO plan to use the Halcyon storage pack for a lift bag... Will this fit on any of my choices?

The Halcyon storage pack will fit on the FredT also. I don't know about the Koplin plate.

Anyone have anything to say about FredT's angles and finish? I like the idea of Halcyon's polished plate, and FredT's pictures look like the finish of the plate is totally uncared for. I hear that the Koplin plates have a beautiful satin finish on them. Also, what do people say about the "bigger angle" of FredT's plates?

I have the Halcyon plate and a FredT plate. I actually prefer the finish on the FredT plate. The Halcyon plate is almost too polished and seems to show scratches more easily than the FredT plate. I actually dulled the finish down even more on my FredT plate to give it a sort of "brushed" look. I like the extra holes on the FredT plate and the carry handle. I'm not sure what you mean by the "bigger angle" of the FredT plate. I can't really tell any differency between them. If you want, FredT will "finish" the plate for a small fee. Both are nice plates, it's mostly personal preference.

I plan to use this rig only for singles. When I start doing doubles, I'll need to get another wing... And will probably end up getting another plate to go with it, just so that I don't have to switch all the time.

Maybe you should just get one of each to compare.

DIR advocates ditchable weight but, as long as you can easily swim the rig up, I think it's ok. I don't like wearing weightbelts if I don't have to. All I need to get down in fresh or salt water is the SS BP...very convienent.

 

[SeaJay]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...

I like the extra holes on the FredT plate and the carry handle. I'm not sure what you mean by the "bigger angle" of the FredT plate. I can't really tell any differency between them.

Hm. FredT told me that he has a "harder angle" in the plate, meaning that it's not as flat as the Halcyon plate. He said that it made singles stand away from the diver more, but doubles fit better. I was wondering how this affected the way the plate felt... Not to mention the fit of the Halcyon storage pack.

I'm still trying to figure out what the carrying handles are for. I DO don gear over my head, but I reach around and pick the system up by the tank. I can't imagine using those handles to don over the head.

You say you like them... All I can do is speculate. Can you tell me more about these handles? And what do you use the extra holes for?

 

[ElectricZombie]

Ok, I see what you are saying. Yes, the FredT plate does have a little harder angle. Both plates feel the same to me. The channel where the bolts recess is a bit deeper and the sides are just a little more narrow than the Halcyon. I don't think it really matters.

I think the handles are more to carry it around on the surface...just the BP and Wing alone. I have used them to help put the rig on in the water. I don't think they really make any difference.

Personally I don't use the extra holes but, some people like to use them to to affix lift bags, etc.

 

[ABQdiver]

I just (like last week) got a Halcyon Pioneer system. After talking to a few on the Scuba board (thanks Detroit Diver) I opted for the standard package containing the Pioneer 36# wing, SS backplate and harness and the separate STA. DD said he didn't like the slopply feeling of the intergral STA and I trust his judgement.

The backplate is pre-strung with the harness, all the D-rings (bent and not), bungee at the left shoulder and lots of innertube bungees to hold the loose ends of the harness, secondary lights, etc. I'm glad I choose that route, since without anyone else around this area to help with the stringing I'm sure I would have had to string it a few times to get all the things in the right order and place.

The Storage pack is basically free with the entire package and looks like it will come in handy. It also seems to offer a bit of padding from the backplate too.

Even though the SS bp weighs 6 lbs., I ended up dropping more than that when I switched from a jacket bc. In fact, I started out by taking 6lbs off my belt. I sank like a rock. I took 4 more off. Better. 2 more off. Very close... could maybe drop another lb. or 2.

So you can't just say a 6lb plate will let me take 6lbs off my belt. Most bc's have alot of "built-in" buoyancy, so you will end up removing more than 6lbs from your belt when switching to a SS bp. In my case I ended up dropping 12lbs.

I haven't dove with the BP&W yet, but I hope that is exactly what happens. My Ranger is plenty fluffy and I'm thinking I might lose more than is obvious just from the extra padding that will be gone.

I kind of feel like you, very stoked and eager to get into the water with the BP&W as soon as possible.

 

[detroit diver]

SeaJay,

What is a Halcyon "hard pocket"? If you're not talking about the MC storage pak, I can't figure out what this would be.

 

[Dryglove]

SeaJay once bubbled...
I like the Koplin plate's reputation for fit, but it does not have the holes I want to hold a Halcyon hard pocket on the right side... So I (or he) would have to customize it some.

I was also curious as to the hard pocket you are referring to.

 

[ABQdiver]

I just (like last week) got a Halcyon Pioneer system. After talking to a few on the Scuba board (thanks Detroit Diver) I opted for the standard package containing the Pioneer 36# wing, SS backplate and harness and the separate STA. DD said he didn't like the slopply feeling of the intergral STA and I trust his judgement.

The backplate is pre-strung with the harness, all the D-rings (bent and not), bungee at the left shoulder and lots of innertube bungees to hold the loose ends of the harness, secondary lights, etc. I'm glad I choose that route, since without anyone else around this area to help with the stringing I'm sure I would have had to string it a few times to get all the things in the right order and place.

The Storage pack is basically free with the entire package and looks like it will come in handy. It also seems to offer a bit of padding from the backplate too.

Even though the SS bp weighs 6 lbs., I ended up dropping more than that when I switched from a jacket bc. In fact, I started out by taking 6lbs off my belt. I sank like a rock. I took 4 more off. Better. 2 more off. Very close... could maybe drop another lb. or 2.

So you can't just say a 6lb plate will let me take 6lbs off my belt. Most bc's have alot of "built-in" buoyancy, so you will end up removing more than 6lbs from your belt when switching to a SS bp. In my case I ended up dropping 12lbs.

I haven't dove with the BP&W yet, but I hope that is exactly what happens. My Ranger is plenty fluffy and I'm thinking I might lose more than is obvious just from the extra padding that will be gone.

I kind of feel like you, very stoked and eager to get into the water with the BP&W as soon as possible.