Weighting a bp/wings

[SeaJay]

detroit diver once bubbled...
SeaJay,

What is a Halcyon "hard pocket"? If you're not talking about the MC storage pak, I can't figure out what this would be.

I was down at EE weekend before last, and I saw this. It's pretty cool.

It's a pocket that attaches to the "belt" of your MC, that stays far back and out of the way on the right side of your body. It's a great place to store stuff if you don't use leg pockets for whatever reason. Think of it as a modified ACB pocket, but on the right side only. It attaches to the "belt" of your MC and also with a bolt to the backplate, just like the ACB pockets do. It's a great place to put stuff, like I said, if you don't use leg pockets, and is also a great place to hook your 7' hose under.

The reason it's called a "hard" pocket is because it has a sort of backing behind it that holds it's shape correctly and makes it nice to hook your 7' hose under. IMHO, it works better than a DIR knife or just tucking into your "belt," and works as good as a canister light, but is a better option if there's never a need for the expense of a cannister.

Here's a pic:

http://www.halcyon.net//images/pioneer_profile.jpg

 

[detroit diver]

SeaJay once bubbled...


I was down at EE weekend before last, and I saw this. It's pretty cool.

It's a pocket that attaches to the "belt" of your MC, that stays far back and out of the way on the right side of your body. It's a great place to store stuff if you don't use leg pockets for whatever reason. Think of it as a modified ACB pocket, but on the right side only. It attaches to the "belt" of your MC and also with a bolt to the backplate, just like the ACB pockets do. It's a great place to put stuff, like I said, if you don't use leg pockets, and is also a great place to hook your 7' hose under.

The reason it's called a "hard" pocket is because it has a sort of backing behind it that holds it's shape correctly and makes it nice to hook your 7' hose under. IMHO, it works better than a DIR knife or just tucking into your "belt," and works as good as a canister light, but is a better option if there's never a need for the expense of a cannister.

Here's a pic:

http://www.halcyon.net//images/pioneer_profile.jpg

SeaJay,

Thanks! I've never seen that before. You can learn something every day!

I wonder how one would wear a cannister light with that?

 

[raxafarian]

detroit diver once bubbled...



I wonder how one would wear a cannister light with that?

one or the other.

it is in the same place that a light would be. I have one and it works good. Long hose goes under it and the pocket holds it well.

It has a big d-ring inside to clip your crap off to.

There is a grometted hole, so I melted a small hole in the waist strap where I wanted the pocket and used a small SS bolt and nut to attach the pocket to the waist strap.... otherwise the pocket will slide off when you undo the waist strap.

 

[FredT]

SeaJay once bubbled...


Hm. FredT told me that he has a "harder angle" in the plate, meaning that it's not as flat as the Halcyon plate. He said that it made singles stand away from the diver more, but doubles fit better. I was wondering how this affected the way the plate felt... Not to mention the fit of the Halcyon storage pack.

I'm still trying to figure out what the carrying handles are for. I DO don gear over my head, but I reach around and pick the system up by the tank. I can't imagine using those handles to don over the head.

You say you like them... All I can do is speculate. Can you tell me more about these handles? And what do you use the extra holes for?

The bend angle on my plates varies according to revision batch.

Early plates (four small holes on each side of the spine bend) are a quite a bit steeper, and this moves the contact point of the plate and back out to near the edge for maximum stability on the back, while allowing for short bolts on doubles packs, and an optimal contact angle of the plate and tank set when diving doubles. These plates also have a narrower crotch strap slot.

Rev 2 plates have tank strap slots cut for the Pioneer series wing and "squared" bolt holes. As requested by customer feedback about midway through this revision I flattened the bend out a bit, although it's still a bit sharper bend than the Halcyon plate. This moved a single tank in to the back a bit more, reduced the storage volume under the plate, and reduced the "wrap" on the back a bit. It still places the back/plate contact area out away from the spine for good stability and comfort. This revision has a crotch strap slot for 2" webbing. Because of the increased "wrap" of the contact points with the back the final height of the tank centerline above the spine is about the same as the Halcyon with similar STA arrangement. To easier visualize how this works place a plate on a horizontal 55gal drum or trash can to see the effect of the 'wrap" angle. The flatter the angle the closer to each other the contact lines will be. Wider contact lines results in less force at the contact line necessary to return a displaced tank to center. Less force is generally more comfortable.

Rev 3 plates have longer tank strap slots for better fit with recwings and round bolt holes. The bend angle is the same. The tank mounting holes have increased to accept 3/8" hardware as well as the standard 5/16 to accommodate the heavier tank band bolts Highland Millworks is using on their heavy duty tank bands. They also have a slightly wider crotch strap slot.

Rev 4 plates are now being cut in heavier metal. This revision is to be produced only in 1/4”, 5/16", and 3/8" 316SST. The layout and bend angles are the same as the Rev 3 plate but the slots have been modified to account for heavier plate thickness in bending and finishing. These are plates weighing in at 12, 15 and 18 pounds negative. At this time they are also a "special order only" deal.

The "hand holes" are there for a "thumbhole" for over the head doff and don, as well a "finger hole" for handling the rig out of water. Those getting unfinished plates should pay particular attention to rounding the ends of these if you intend to use them as hand holes so the thumb and fingers can easily slide off the edge.

As far as the surface finish goes the plate is mill finish to keep costs down. I don't do anything to the unfinished ones. Finished plates will have a brush finish applied. I do try to keep handling marks to a minimum on unfinished plates, but a few surface scratches from handling in the burn shop are inevitable. The plate pictures are of as cut material.

FT

 

[Cave Diver]

raxafarian once bubbled...
There is a grometted hole, so I melted a small hole in the waist strap where I wanted the pocket and used a small SS bolt and nut to attach the pocket to the waist strap.... otherwise the pocket will slide off when you undo the waist strap.

These have been around for a while, as they were discussed in our DIRF class last August. It also comes with some method of attachment to the numerous holes in the Halcyon plate which keeps if from sliding around or off.

 

[SeaJay]

detroit diver once bubbled...

I wonder how one would wear a cannister light with that?

I got the impression that you couldn't. I got the impression that it was designed to take the place of a cannister light when there was no cannister light to use.

It's actually a sizable piece... I think it was something like 5" deep, 8" wide, and like 10" long. It was pretty big... About the size of a cannister light. It was also hard-backed, with an internal structure in it that helped it to hold it shape so that it was usable underwater. Pretty cool, but this hard shape pretty much made it so that it HAD to sit far back on the diver's body. When I checked it out, I tried placing it further forward on my rig... Basically over my right hip bone. That simply would not work, because of the fact that it was a stiff pocket and stuck me in the upper thigh and lower ribs when I bent at the waist.

So basically, it's got to be placed where it is in that picture... On the side and towards the back of the rig. In fact, it has a strap that gets bolted to the backplate on it, for this purpose. Because of this bolt strap, there's no way to mount this pocket on the left side of the rig (the bolt strap is only sewn on one side of the pocket.) Of course, it could be modified, if you really wanted to, such that you could cut off the bolt strap (and heat the frayed ends of the strap) and then place it on the left side of the rig, held in place by the left side D-ring and keeper. I think that would work.

Might interfere, though, with an SPG a little, though. I plan on using a (gasp) Vytec only, so it's not an issue for me.

Ultimately, with two pockets on either side, you could potentially carry the kitchen sink down there, too, if you wanted. Or maybe a couple of friends. Okay, maybe it'd just be a great place for an extra reel or two for longer penetrations, or a place to put your Reefmaster digital, so it's always on you, no matter what you're doing.

Being the artifact diver myself, I see a huge value in lots of pockets, and an even better value in being able to take them off if I'm not using them, for streamlining purposes. Beats the heck out of catch bags, which are always dangling and in the way.

But I think that Halcyon's main reason for making that pocket was to have something to hold down your 7' hose... Something that was usable. The fact that you can now have pockets without having to sew or glue on your wetsuit... Well, that's really nice.

That way, I can still continue to treat my wetsuit like hell on my dives, and then come home and still throw it in the washing machine with some Woolite like I always do. I don't know for sure, but something tells me that pockets wouldn't take this for very long.

...So this hard pocket is really attractive to me.

...And I really like the idea of being able to put everything away, where it's out of sight until I need it... Then it's immediately accessible. I can see putting in there both of my backup lights, a reel and a spool, a spare mask, and a slate for emergency communications, and still have plenty of space for artifacts.

One of the things that I despise most about some rigs is that they seem to insist that you need to have "danglies." The typical diver has a console, octo, a pair of lights, and everything else hanging off of him before getting into the water. Even those who preach streamlining look like Christmas trees. "Danglies" drive me crazy.

Leg pockets would be a great alternative, but I don't think they'd last long with my habits.

One of these pockets may be a great solution.

 

[SeaJay]

Cave Diver once bubbled...


These have been around for a while, as they were discussed in our DIRF class last August. It also comes with some method of attachment to the numerous holes in the Halcyon plate which keeps if from sliding around or off.

There are special holes, smaller than the others that run the perimeter of the Halcyon plate, which are designed to accept a bolt meant to secure this hard pocket or ACB pockets. FredT's plate also has these special holes. If you look at either of these plates, they're the small holes closest to the two bottom slots on either side of the plate.

Scott Koplin's plates don't seem to have these, and his plates also don't seem to have the slots necessary for using the Pioneer "integrated" STA in Halcyon's single tank wings. However, Scott told me that he'd be happy to do either one of these at any customer's request.

I stand corrected on the FredT plates, though... I didn't think that any of your plates had any finish on them at all, Fred. I wasn't aware that your "finished" plates were not only deburred, but brushed as well. I thiought that "finished" simply meant "deburred."

That changes a lot, Fred, for me.

 

[SeaJay]

(deleted, because it was a duplicate of the one above)

 

[dmdalton]

I got the impression that you couldn't. I got the impression that it was designed to take the place of a cannister light when there was no cannister light to use.

That is correct. It is worn in place of a canister light. I have one and it works quite well. Given that I always wear a canister light I gave it to my son for his singles rig, he is stationed in Puerto Rico with the USN.

Only down side to it is that Halcyon is "very proud of it" seeing how they get almost $90 for it! Ouch. It is nice, but that is a bit outrageous. If you want a way to hold down your long hose take a piece of pvc or abs pipe and add a loop like what is on a canister light. Make the piece of pipe about 10" long and pretend it is a canister light.

Dave D

 

[SeaJay]

I saw that. It does seem very outrageous.

On the other hand, it is functional, and would prevent me from having to attach anything to my wetsuit. I just don't trust those pockets. Sure, maybe if they were on a drysuit, but with my conforming wetsuit needing to stretch correctly to fit properly, I'm wondering if the pocket wouldn't cause excess wear.

Wouldn't be good for the neoprene, would it? Anyone had problems of these pockets coming off or tearing or whatever? You know... The glue or sew on kind?

It's a lot of money, but it just seems that I'd be killing two birds with one stone. Storage, and a place to hook my long hose, which I am in love with, especially as I get further and further into wrecking and caving.

Thoughts?