Weakling needs tips for torque

[Akimbo]

A good vise is one of the most valuable tools I can think of for regulator repair, or most other bench tasks for that matter. The Grip Master Vise from Scuba Tools is one of the best I can think of:



Naturally, a vise like this must be bolted to a bench. More important than the rapid acting vise is the set of V-shaped soft jaws that allows a good grip with minimal risk to the chrome plating:



You can get V-shaped soft jaws for conventional vises from a number of machinist supply houses such as Enco or Travers Tool, though not as well suited as the one from Scuba Tools. Line the jaws of a standard vise with a soft material like copper sheet to prevent scaring parts as a minimum. Old rags often tear and the chrome gets scarred anyway.

A primitive and inexpensive solution is to cut “V” grooves into soft wood blocks and clamp them down on a bench with a couple of C-clamps. Even if you were strong enough to hold the first stage in one hand and the wrench in the other, it is a bad practice because tools often slip and ruin soft brass wrench flats and pin spanner holes.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I don't know if I'd even mess with a yoke nut that required that much torque to get loose. I'd also suggest since you do all saltwater stuff unless I'm mistaken to take the yoke assembly itself apart once in awhile and put a little protective lube on the threads. I just did an annual inspection and cleaning on a reg that only sees saltwater use and even though it was clearly rinsed as recommended it still had a little green on the threads. I made it a practice to put a LIGHT coating of christo lube (all I use along with Tribo lube) on all threaded connections and snug em up. It does not make them any more likley to loosen up but it does protect the threads and reduce saltwater and water with lot of minerals residue. You only have to not do a GOOD rinse once for some stuff to start getting a foot hold. The lube along with a good soaking in warm fresh water every 20 dives or so along with a freshwater rinse after every dive greatly reduces this build up. Another reason I don't like public rinse tanks. What good does it do to dunk a reg into a vat that 50 other people have dunked theirs in? Gear does not come clean tha that way.

I have a few sockets I've cut down to fit into the yoke and have never needed more than a 3 inch extension to go thru the knob hole and a 12 inch ratchet. Yoke nuts do not need to be that tight (266 in lbs) since the tank pressure is going to increase the force holding it together once you turn the air on. How many dives/tanks has this reg seen since last service? I now pretty much have all DIN but the few yokes I have easily come apart with the big crescent wrench that fits around the outside. The stubborn ones get the socket.

 

[flots am]

Oh, it's a vocabulary thing, maybe. To me "tubing" is made of flexible material like rubber or silicone. The word I use for what many of you seem to be describing is "pipe" --rigid and made of metal, pvc or other hard material. So a PVC pipe to fit over the regulator handle and one to fit over the wrench handle?

I mean metal tubing, Like Steel. Stay away from plastic . If (when) you break PVC, it will snap into a couple of sharp jagged sections and take off part of your face.

Pipe works also, but a 3' section of pipe large enough to accept a rachet handle is actually pretty heavy.

flots.

 

[flots am]

Or try a vise.

You really need a vice anyway, since it will also prevent you from getting hurt while you're trying to hold two wrenches in the air with a reg in the middle and something slips.

flots.

 

[knotical]

Useful info in this thread.

Despite the testiness in some of the posts, I’m mainly encouraged that people are actually using torque wrenches. Too often those numbers in the service manuals are ignored, sometimes to the detriment of equipment, and even to the inheriting service tech.

Sure, when you’ve tightened many fittings you get a feel for about the right torque, but until that time, most people would be well served to use torque wrenches.

 

[Quero]

What I expected to be a simple four-post thread with an obvious answer that I'd somehow overlooked actually turned into quite a rich discussion. Again, thank you all!

Like a majority of women (and perhaps a fair number of men as well), I don't have a long history of taking my bicycle apart, tinkering with my first (and subsequent) car, repairing plumbing/hinges/fixtures, or anything mechanical. Therefore I haven't developed any sort of "instinct" about what works in terms of moving parts and what might harm those parts, how things fit together, or how tight to tighten stuff. Nevertheless, while it would be much easier (and in the short run much cheaper) for me to send all my school gear off for servicing, I think it's important for a dive pro to understand the rudiments of how to take apart and reconstruct regulators, so this foray a few years back into courses as a service tech required a fair amount of focused attention on my part. The bonus was all the curious terminology that goes along with it, like "poppet" and "shim" and "bush".

And in fact, there's nothing "difficult" about servicing regulators (though I find it "hard" to loosen yoke nuts); however it is bitty, and without the benefit of a lifetime of tinkering to develop a feel for this sort of thing, there's no way I'd personally touch scuba equipment without following the manuals to the letter, or as it were, number for the specified torque values. (I was amazed at the expense of a torque wrench, but oh well.) As it happens, at the moment I don't have a DMT to loosen and tighten stuff for me, so I'm stuck trying to figure out how to manage it on my own.

I'll let you know how I get on with the attempt to employ the Swiss-Boot-Torque-Technique tomorrow when I get back to the first stage I'm nearly finished with and start in on the next one. In the meantime, I've been working on the second stages. It'll get done--even if I have to haul a guy in here to torque things for me.

 

[halocline]

Quero, I was kidding about the air wrench and the dynamite (I think you use that for fishing!)....congratulations for working on your own gear and there's certainly nothing gender specific about doing so. You do really need the vise, or it will be much more difficult to apply accurate torque anyway. What kind of reg is it? 266in/lbs sounds like a SP spec, and there are a few of us around here with way too much familiarity with working on SP regs. We'd be happy to bombard with all sorts unsolicited and probably unnecessary advice.

 

[redacted]

I don't know if I'd even mess with a yoke nut that required that much torque to get loose. I'd also suggest since you do all saltwater stuff unless I'm mistaken to take the yoke assembly itself apart once in awhile and put a little protective lube on the threads. I just did an annual inspection and cleaning on a reg that only sees saltwater use and even though it was clearly rinsed as recommended it still had a little green on the threads. I made it a practice to put a LIGHT coating of christo lube (all I use along with Tribo lube) on all threaded connections and snug em up. It does not make them any more likley to loosen up but it does protect the threads and reduce saltwater and water with lot of minerals residue. You only have to not do a GOOD rinse once for some stuff to start getting a foot hold. The lube along with a good soaking in warm fresh water every 20 dives or so along with a freshwater rinse after every dive greatly reduces this build up. Another reason I don't like public rinse tanks. What good does it do to dunk a reg into a vat that 50 other people have dunked theirs in? Gear does not come clean tha that way.

I have a few sockets I've cut down to fit into the yoke and have never needed more than a 3 inch extension to go thru the knob hole and a 12 inch ratchet. Yoke nuts do not need to be that tight (266 in lbs) since the tank pressure is going to increase the force holding it together once you turn the air on. How many dives/tanks has this reg seen since last service? I now pretty much have all DIN but the few yokes I have easily come apart with the big crescent wrench that fits around the outside. The stubborn ones get the socket.

Lube on the threads is a good idea especially if it is a newer Scubapro 1st. They and many other regulators use a small (010) o-ring at the end of the retainer to seal to the body which leaves the threads exposed to SW. Older models put a larger o-ring (?015?) above the threads to seal the retainer to the body protecting those threads from SW unless it gets inside the 1st.

Those higher torque values are not necessary to get the seal but are intended to keep that connection from coming loose. With the small sealing o-ring, the tank pressure does not create much force on those threads and it is possible to turn the reg body when it is attached to a tank and actually loosen (or tighten) that connection.

Rinsing is not enough. It takes lots of soaking to draw SW from exposed threads.

 

[ajtoady]

If you send me the airline tickets I could bring my vise and wrenches!! I would love to dive Pooh- Ket.

 

[shortdivemedic]

Or you could let me know a month or so in advance and you buy the beer after and I will come visit again. This time we would have to ops check all the regulators while we were diving also.

Cheers
Michael