Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have a hypotheses that there is a direct correlation between the length response, use of multiquotes, references to old past threads, use of BOLD & Colored Fonts and the use of disrepectfully smiles and how badly a member is loosing the debate.

No need to read, just measure the column inches, count the quotes, bold and colored fonts and smilies etc. and one can tell just how deep the hole currently is.

Some don't know when to stop digging.

Tobin

When I started typing in red, I was indicating that evidently, no matter how hard I try to keep this thread on the two thread topics I have repeated numerous times, we are going to just slug it out over the new topic of attack the messenger since we can't attack the message!.

Since this thread is no longer going to stay on topic, no matter how hard I try to nudge it back towards the two real thread topics I have stated over and over, I guess we will just descend into the trenches and slug it out.

If you can't attack the message, by all means attack the messenger.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Yawn

Tobin

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I was attacking both your message for being wrong and you for being hypocritical actually.

I'm not sure I see how it is hypocritical to think that since a goodly part of a vest bladder wraps around to the same depth as the chest/belly (of some divers), well below the lowest portion of a wing bladder, that the draft of similarly configured except for Vest and Wing BC's would result in a shallower draft for the Vest diver; that is simple physics!

And using my typed words from a local diving forum about one very shallow entry to one shore dive site, nearly a year ago and never mentioned by me again, to say that my message that anecdotal opinion should be qualified as opinion and not typed as ABSOLUTE FACT when advising people in the main worldwide forums with regards to which BC they should get, seems not to be anything other than....

not attacking the message, but instead attacking the messenger....

since the message in this thread is not about ethically entering the MALA shore dive.

 

[Sas]

I'm not sure I see how it is hypocritical to think that since a goodly part of a vest bladder wraps around to the same depth as the chest/belly (of some divers), well below the lowest portion of a wing bladder, that the draft of similarly configured except for Vest and Wing BC's would result in a shallower draft for the Vest diver; that is simple physics!

It is hypocritical to constantly bag out posters for their opinions on BP/Ws whilst posting your own opinions. You say you only do this when people make statements of fact but this is bullocks as you have done it multiple times to people just expressing an opinion.

You are also still to satisfactorily answer the question "what is the big deal about people recommending BP/Ws as being better than jackets without evidence?"

And using my typed words from a local diving forum about one very shallow entry to one shore dive site, nearly a year ago and never mentioned by me again, to say that my message that anecdotal opinion should be qualified as opinion and not typed as ABSOLUTE FACT when advising people in the main worldwide forums with regards to which BC they should get, seems not to be anything other than....

not attacking the message, but instead attacking the messenger....

I did both. You are wrong to state that a BP/W is inappropriate based on the experiences of two posters - that is attacking your message. As I have stated I have also attacked YOU as well for being hypocritical.

Was someone with a BP/W mean to you once?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Where the hell is Wormil when you need him!!

 

[knowone]

Quote:Originally Posted by knowone
In water ability has less to do with No of dives than No of posts
spent out of the water.

How do you figure this? Time in the water is the main way of a diver refining their skills. I agree that # of dives guarantees you nothing other than a diver with a low dive count will lack experience (this is not calling them a bad diver). Unless the poster is lying about their count, then there is no disputing this.

A high dive count does not necessarily indicate skill.
There are plenty out there that pick things up quickly.

Once you know how to clear a mask there is nothing to refine
This practicing just makes your eyes red and eats into your dive

SKILL is anticipating a pipe or rock falling on your head, and to AVOID
flooding your mask, but when you do there is no descriptive way that you clear it you just do, like windshield wipers, like stopping with your lungs.

The more time spent talking here the farther away skill becomes.

Pushing boundaries to responsible limits
is a skill to be under constant refinement

Responsible limits can only be defined by the one conducting the skill.

SOLO.

 

[Tortuga68]

For the first ~10 years after my OW cetification, I did 3-4 dives a year in rental jackets. I liked diving, but I didn't love it. Then 3.5 years ago I was lucky enough to meet some people in the Philippines who introduced me to the BP/W, which I had never heard of let alone seen before. I couldn't believe how much more comfortable & easy diving was in a BP/W, instantly. And how much sense the long hose made, both in theory and practice.

I went a bought an Eclipse after I got home. I now have doubles as well. Last time I was in the PI, I dove doubles the whole week, even on 20m dives. Why? Because I loaned my Eclipse to another guest to try, and he liked it so much I didn't have the heart to make him go back to wearing a rental jacket.

Since buying my own BP/W, I've done about 100 dives a year. Not just because of the ease & confort, but because it opened the door to technical diving for me. I now love diving and make the time and spend the moeny to do it as often as I can. And when I have the opportunity to introduce someone else to BP/W, I do it, so they can see for themselves how they like it.

I don't think I've ever told someone to get a BP/W - certainly not on the internet - or that it was the right tool for every dive. What I have done is suggested that people try it for themselves before they make a decision. I would hate to have bought something myself and then find out that there was something else I liked better. I've never met a diver who hasn't tried a jacket, but I've met lots who - like me - had enevr seen or even heard of a BP/W, let alone tried one.

Is a BP/W better than every type of jacket? I don't know, I haven't dived every type of jacket - but it is better for me than every jacket I've ever used. Is a BP/W the right tool for every type of diving? I don't know, I haven't done every type of diving - but so far it has been right for every type I have done.

I still do recreational dives with jacket-wearing divers all the time. SOme of them are very competent, experienced divers. I don't tell them to get a BP/W, or even to try one. But if someone is curious about my gear, they're welcome to try my BP/W, fins, regs, whatever they like. If they don't like them, no problem I'll still dive with them the next day.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I would fully agree if mask clearing were the only skill a diver needed. Time out of water does not help trim, buoyancy, comfort, propulsion......these are things that can only be "refined" in water IMO.

However, my point was that a low dive count (unless it is a lie) guarantees a lack of EXPERIENCE. There is no disputing that.

Quote:Originally Posted by knowone
In water ability has less to do with No of dives than No of posts
spent out of the water.





A high dive count does not necessarily indicate skill.
There are plenty out there that pick things up quickly.

Once you know how to clear a mask there is nothing to refine
This practicing just makes your eyes red and eats into your dive

SKILL is anticipating a pipe or rock falling on your head, and to AVOID
flooding your mask, but when you do there is no descriptive way that you clear it you just do, like windshield wipers, like stopping with your lungs.

The more time spent talking here the farther away skill becomes.

Pushing boundaries to responsible limits
is a skill to be under constant refinement

Responsible limits can only be defined by the one conducting the skill.

SOLO.

 

[ijdod]

Started out in a regular vest (SeaQuest ProQD).Did try one of the instructor's BP/W setup, but failed to really appreciate it at the time. a 100-ish dives later, I tried one again, and loved how easy it felt to trim, so I switched then. Still used the vest when assisting in training new divers, for some scenarios in that context I prefer the vest.

 

[fjpatrum]

My main thought was and still is that diving with air temps in the high 20's and water temps in the high 40's with a group of divers where the least experienced diver has several hundred dives and lots of advanced training is not really Basic Scuba; IMHO it should have been in Advanced Scuba. :shocked2:

Peter said I had a "warped view of the dive world." Happy New Year!

So, just to be clear, the type of diving one does is directly related to how many dives one has? IE a person with 20 dives is a basic diver while someone with 1000+ can only do advanced dives?

Crap! I'm screwed as I don't have a lot of interest in advanced dives but I have no intention of quitting after "several hundred" dives.