Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[James R]

So why buy that model of ScubaPro and also why use a badly fitting Vest BC to condemn all Vest BC's as "not very streamlined?"

You're really reaching here, and clearly just trying to pick out little pieces of posts to make a typical Internet argument. Are you 13 yrs old or what?

I can't even believe I'm going to play along, but I guess (like you) I have nothing better to do.

That Bella BCD is what she was sold at the LDS. I did not pick it out. I did not size it for her. I did not chose it or suggest she buy it. She was a very new diver at the time, and this is what she was told was "perfect" for her. She now knows that this BCD is not an ideal fit for her as well. When someone buys a BCD at a shop with no pool, there is no real way to see for sure how it will be in water, is there? Plus, it's not like you can return them.

One last thing, too. In no way did I say that based on that one situation that all vest BCDs are or are not streamlined. I don't appreciate your child-like argument tactics and twisting my post around to suit your agenda.

Re-read the very fist thing I said, below.

I would not argue that anything is entirely true for every single case. I would not argue that a BP/W is a better option for every diver or every situation, either.

You just keep being awesome. :kissbutt:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As I have mentioned, ad nauseum, I am pretty consistent in only arguing against absolute statements made as fact of subjects that are subjective.

The title was inspired/coined by a Vest BC HATER!

Perhaps it's just me ... but I see a contradiction, and no small amount of irony in those two statements.

Seriously ... you must be a barrel of laughs to be around on a dive boat ... particularly for anyone unfortunate enough to show up with a backplate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[*dave*]

I recall the first time I dived my rig in Maui. I believe Stan was the DM and while I was gearing up I noticed him sneering at my rig. I asked what was up and he replied "You techies and your gear" and shook his head. After I asked him to elaborate after the dive, he informed me I didn't need all that stuff for Island diving. At the time, I didn't care to defend my choice of gear, but it seems Halemano has a similar mindset to Stan.

I dive a BP/W because it works for every type of diving I do. The same can not be said for the jacket. Am I expected to buy a poodle jacket with an AIRII for the Islands? What incidents have you Islanders witnessed that would cause such disdain for a diver's personal choice in rigs?

Seriously, I don't get it.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Public forums are chock full of opinion presented as absolute truth.

"I use XX mask straps and they are the best!!!!!!" etc. etc. Usually the folks making these statements have used one or maybe two competing products.

It's simply a reality of public forums. Anybody that acts based only on what they read on a public forum is simply naive.

I'm always a bit leery of anybody who appoints themselves as a guardian of some "truth", boldly striding forth to save the naive from unsupported absolute statements.

These self righteous "truth warriors" all too often use their quest as an excuse for being unpleasant and obnoxious.

I'd respectfully suggest that just like trolls, these folks are best simply ignored.

Tobin

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As I recall, the "warped view of the dive world" comment came from Peter Guy, who's about as much an equipment agnostic as I've ever met ... and the context of the comment had nothing whatsoever to do with gear choices.

It had everything to do with Halemano's objection to Lynne posting about a dive we did on New Year's Eve in Puget Sound in the Basic Discussions forum ... because he believes that unless you dive in a location like Maui, using the equipment he uses ... you're not a Basic diver.

Read the thread for yourself ... you'll find that there's only one person in the whole thread who's making an issue out of BCD choices ... and that's Halemano ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

I was already diving a back inflator jacket and liked the horizontal positioning of it. My wife was starting to dive and also liked my jacket. (It happened to fit her well also) I liked the modular construction of a BP&W along with that I was able to find a complete set of new components for less than what a second jacket would have cost me.
Cost, performance, ease to maintain, reconfigs for doubles in future.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Seriously ... you must be a barrel of laughs to be around on a dive boat ... particularly for anyone unfortunate enough to show up with a backplate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'll bet he wouldn't say a word.

 

[Splitlip]

My name is Tim and I dive a BPW.

I got certified in 1973. Spent time in the water before then with my Dad's leather harness, tank and double hose reg.

I was certed and dived for years with a plastic back pack pack and steel '72 and minimal exposure protection. Very comfortable in our waters.

Used a borrowed Seaquest horse collar for my AOW in ~'80. Hated it. I purchased a ScubaPro STAB jacked shortly thereafter. Liked it much better, but unfortunately it came in 2 sizes. Too large and too small.

Ended up diving a lot with just my backpack here and in the Keys on my boat and friends' boats. Eventually, most of my regular buddies moved out of State, had families, ended up in prison, died or got too old.

After a dry spell, I decided to take a stab a charters. Well you had to have a BC. So I bought a back inflate and liked it. I did find that the years had changed my natural trim and I was having to load the upper cam strap with weight.

In Force-E in Riviera Beach one day about 6 years ago, speaking to the then manager Billy Black, I mentioned my trim issues. He walked out to his truck and returned with a a yellow catch bag. He said "I keep this on my boat. Try it." It was a steel plate, harness and little DO wing with DIY bungees. In a catch bag! The entire package around 6 #, but also 5 # negative.

Tried it. Loved it. I trimmed out without strapping weights on the BC.

Well, that is me. Having said that, I have seen people do wonderful things in proper fitting scubapro classic. The descendant of my my old Stab. Comes in lot's more sizes today. My size would have 60 pounds of lift, but I would never need 60. Maybe 20, so there would be no need to ever get squeezed. I like the Classic because the bubble migrates as the diver does. Unfortunately, I need the weight across my back and I think most jacket trim pockets are too low for me.

In any event. I aways advocate new divers to try as many systems as they can to decide what works and what is comfortable.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I do believe that BP/W are more streamlined then jacket BC's and I'll tell you why.
First let me substitute the word slipstream for streamline.
Even though streamline and slipstream could mean the same thing, slipstream to me is a little more direct meaning the the way an object moves through a gas or liquid and the efficiency in relation to drag of that motion.
Aircraft and submarines have to have very efficient designs with a very smooth and obstruction free slipstream for maximum performance and efficiency.

With jacket BC's to me they are way too bulky on the sides with the side inflation and pockets plus all the padding on the shoulders, the cumberbun, and the width of the aircells on some of the models are too big and poorly designed. I don't like the tank mounting system I think it sets the tank too far away from the divers back and the whole unit increases the overall hole size a diver would make as they penetrate and move foreward through the water column.

A BP/W is much more simple without all the pockets, weight integration, cumberbun, padding, and as such there aren't as many things sticking out to cause moving water to hang up on. This means that the slipstream is improved with having nothing on the frontside except straps that sit flat against the diver and a wing that has the foreward profile (looking at the top of the diver) no bigger than a loaf of bread. The tank also sits about as close as a tank can get to the divers back reducing the overall circumference of a diver. All this makes for a smoother slipstream and thus a more efficient diver.

For a final analogy or visual, Take a car, any car like say a Honda (it really doesn't matter). The car is put in a wind tunnel and tested and given some sort of wind resistance rating when it's tested.
Take the same car except this time strap on a bunch of suit cases on the doors and on the roof and send it into the wind tunnel and perform the same tests.
The result will be that the car with the suit cases strapped on it will have an obstructed slipstream and therefore will be less efficient.
A BP/W vs Jacket is the same difference... at least to me.

 

[lxchin]

Not sure if this was mentioned before but a jacket is great in choppy conditions. In Perth Australia, winter seas which we dive in cam be about 2m high (any bigger and the boat journey turns in to a vomiting/puking session). With the jacket BCD, your head is higher and hence you will be hit by the waves alot less as compared to the BP/W.

But for the tropics, the BP/W is the best. streamline as everyone has mention is a big bonus, and you just feel so free to move in the water.

So yeah, different tools for different dives i guess mate.

Godd luck!