Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[MXGratefulDiver]

There was expected entertainment around the on topic posts, but the real topic is...

"INTERNET EXPERTS STATING OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT."

The warped dive world title is part of a series. The title was inspired/coined by a Vest BC HATER!

Yes Bob, no need to hide the name of the thread, I already quoted it and posted the link.... (at least I have it, as post #59 )

Peter said I had a "warped view of the dive world." Happy New Year!

So then you are an "INTERNET EXPERT STATING OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT." It is your opinion that Peter is a "Vest BC HATER!". Knowing Peter quite well, I can assure you that is NOT a fact. Peter doesn't care what you wear, and isn't the sort of person who "hates" other people's equipment choices. In fact, knowing Peter as well as I do, I have a hard time associating him with the term "Hate" at all.

The "fact" would be to state that Peter has tried a number of different style BCDs over the years ... including vests ... and decided that the vest wasn't the best choice for him to use. He's perfectly happy telling you why ... but he won't hate you if you choose some other type of equipment. Nor does he hate the equipment itself. In fact, hating an inert piece of equipment seems like a truly foolish thing to do ... and Peter is far from a foolish person.

It is apparent that you are unwilling to hold yourself to the same standards for posting that you insist on holding everyone else to ... but that shouldn't surprise anyone ... self-righteous people rarely see the flaws in themselves that they see in everyone else ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crush]

It is apparent that you are unwilling to hold yourself to the same standards for posting that you insist on holding everyone else to ... but that shouldn't surprise anyone ... self-righteous people rarely see the flaws in themselves that they see in everyone else ...

I find myself sympathetic to (what I perceive to be) halemanō's frustration with some BP/w divers who post on SB. I believe that many BP/w divers on SB have found something which works best for them. Some, however, suggest a BP/w as the one universal tool that best suits all divers - this I disagree with. So I decided to test the following hypothesis on SB:

There is a pronounced tendency among some BP/w divers who post on SB to suggest that a BP/w the one universal tool that best suits all divers.​

In order to test this hypothesis I began two nearly identical posts on SB (located here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...weight-systems/371062-advice-bc-purchase.html and here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ight-systems/371064-advice-bp-w-purchase.html ) approximately 24 hours ago. In both posts I asked for advice on which manufacturer's product I should choose, inquiring about rear-inflate or jacket BCs in the first posts and about BP/w systems in the second. In both cases I offered minimal input on my diving needs, short of suggesting that I was a new diver who mostly dove in warm water. The critical part of the experiment is that in the BC thread I offered one poll option which was "Get a BP/w." Similarly in the BP/w thread I offered one option "Buy a rear-inflate or jacket BC." In the BP/w advice thread only 9% of the 23 respondents chose "Buy a rear-inflate or jacket BC." However, in the BC thread 63% of the 19 respondents chose "Get a BP/w." Personally I find this "Get a BP/w" response rate to be fantastic considering how little information the respondents had to work with.

I believe that my hypothesis (above) is correct.

Before anyone suggests that this "experiment" has flaws I will state outright that the experiment is imperfect. However, it is "good enough" so show that the hypothesis is likely correct, or at least cannot be discounted. If you'd like a better study, please feel free to carry one out.

 

[Tortuga68]

Before anyone suggests that this "experiment" has flaws I will state outright that the experiment is imperfect. However, it is "good enough" so show that the hypothesis is likely correct, or at least cannot be discounted. If you'd like a better study, please feel free to carry one out.

The major problem with your experiment was that it was transparently obvious to anyone who was reading the multiple threads what you were trying to do

If you read my post in your thread you'll see that

 

[Splitlip]

Here is food for thought.

Zeagle is now in the BPW business as is Oceanic (Hollis). And I know for a fact you will be seeing a BPW introduced by another BIG player in the Jacket BCD game. I have seen the prototypes.

 

[DevonDiver]

I believe that many BP/w divers on SB have found something which works best for them. Some, however, suggest a BP/w as the one universal tool that best suits all divers - this I disagree with.

...I offered minimal input on my diving needs, short of suggesting that I was a new diver who mostly dove in warm water. ..... "Get a BP/w" response rate to be fantastic considering how little information the respondents had to work with.

Crush... what 'differing needs' are you imagining?

I see one single need:

A variable capacity bladder that can be inflated via LPI and deflated via dump valve/LPI. This bladder should be attached to the diver via some form of harness and must secure the cylinder to the unit. The unit should provide sufficient buoyancy to provide positive buoyancy on the surface. It should also supply neutral and negative buoyancy whilst submerged.

Some divers may want additional functionality in respect of equipment storage (DSMB, Reel, whistle, light etc) and weight integration.

Some divers may additionally specify a minimal total unit weight, because they travel via air (excess baggage considerations).

BP&W can provide all of those functions. So can jacket, back-inflate and hybrid BCDs.

Is there any other real requirement or need that isn't addressed??

 

[Crush]

The major problem with your experiment was that it was transparently obvious to anyone who was reading the multiple threads what you were trying to do

If you read my post in your thread you'll see that

I did read your post - it gave me a chuckle.

Most people don't read the previous posts in a given thread before posting in it, but I take your point. Unfortunately SB mods wouldn't have wanted me to set up sock-puppet accounts, so my motives were apparent to some.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I find myself sympathetic to (what I perceive to be) halemanō's frustration with some BP/w divers who post on SB. I believe that many BP/w divers on SB have found something which works best for them. Some, however, suggest a BP/w as the one universal tool that best suits all divers - this I disagree with. So I decided to test the following hypothesis on SB:

There is a pronounced tendency among some BP/w divers who post on SB to suggest that a BP/w the one universal tool that best suits all divers.​

In order to test this hypothesis I began two nearly identical posts on SB (located here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...weight-systems/371062-advice-bc-purchase.html and here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ight-systems/371064-advice-bp-w-purchase.html ) approximately 24 hours ago. In both posts I asked for advice on which manufacturer's product I should choose, inquiring about rear-inflate or jacket BCs in the first posts and about BP/w systems in the second. In both cases I offered minimal input on my diving needs, short of suggesting that I was a new diver who mostly dove in warm water. The critical part of the experiment is that in the BC thread I offered one poll option which was "Get a BP/w." Similarly in the BP/w thread I offered one option "Buy a rear-inflate or jacket BC." In the BP/w advice thread only 9% of the 23 respondents chose "Buy a rear-inflate or jacket BC." However, in the BC thread 63% of the 19 respondents chose "Get a BP/w." Personally I find this "Get a BP/w" response rate to be fantastic considering how little information the respondents had to work with.

I believe that my hypothesis (above) is correct.

Before anyone suggests that this "experiment" has flaws I will state outright that the experiment is imperfect. However, it is "good enough" so show that the hypothesis is likely correct, or at least cannot be discounted. If you'd like a better study, please feel free to carry one out.

Can you point me to a sport diving, i.e. "recreational", or "tech diving" none commercial application where a BP&W is unfit? Please be specific.

If there is no (or very few) such applications all of the respondents recommending a BP&W are simply offering a reasonable choice based on their own positive experiences.

What exactly are halemano and you "saving" ScubaBoard members from?

What sort of terrible fate awaits the newbie that succumbs to the "internet experts" and buys a BP&W in lieu of a Jacket BC?

Are BP&W's demonstrably unsafe?

Are BP&W's horrible overpriced?

Do BP&W's lose all valve in 6 months?

Do BP&W's make diving more difficult?

Do BP&W's require a lot more ballast?

Will a BP&W owner have to sell their BP&W if they choose to peruse additional training?

Will a BP&W owner need a new BC if they want to use a Tow behind scooter?

Will a BP&W owner need a new BC if they want to carry stage or deco bottles?

Will a BP&W owner need an entire new BC is they move to doubles?

Is it impossible to travel with a BP&W?

Are BP&W's difficult to service or repair?

Are BP&W's hard to adjust to most divers?

Is it impossible for photographers to use a BP&W?

Is it impossible to hunt in a BP&W?

What exactly is the list of horribles that awaits the poor devil suckered into buying a BP&W?


Tobin

 

[ScubaSteve]

Personally I find this "Get a BP/w" response rate to be fantastic considering how little information the respondents had to work with.

But are you able to offer up one dive that a BP&W is NOT suitable for? I do not think I have seen more than 3 or 4 posters ever say that the BP&W is the best for everything. I logged some 300+ dives on a SeaQuest Pro QD+ and had my buoyancy perfected along with my trim. I was extremely happy with the dives and never had a bad taste for anything. I bought a drysuit and changed over to a DR Rec wing with SS plate. I have so few dives on it that I am still learning the whole thing (not just the wing) but have to say I like the BP/W feeling. I was able to achieve good horizontal trim MUCH quicker in the wing than the BC (but I did in fact get it in the BC).

In almost 400 dives, I have yet to find a dive that the wing is not suitable for. Perhaps this is why people still said get a wing when you were looking for a BC.,.....because it is the best all round solution to most divers current and future diving needs. You may agree or disagreee, but all I ask is that you do not take this irrational approach to the topic that halemano has adopted.

 

[*dave*]

I have made it my pet peeve to point out when the....

"INTERNET EXPERTS STATE OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT."

You would have an easier task in removing the off color grains of sand from all the beaches of Maui. Personally, I don't accept anything I see posted on the net by users as fact.

 

[Crush]

Several of you appear to be frustrated with my post (above) and are reading into it things that are not there. I have nothing against BP/w setups. I did my first 50 dives or so in a Zeagle Scout and have done about 30 or so in my AL BP/w. Yes - mention that I am a new diver if it makes you feel better. Frankly both the BP and the Scout dive the same to me. The only reason that I prefer (somewhat) the BP to the Scout is that the BP affords me the ability to clip-off my large (pistol grip) flashlight on the backplate where it is completely out of the way until I need it to peer under a ledge or into a wreck. Also, the rear D-ring on the crotch strap is a handy place for my DSMB.