Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[MXGratefulDiver]

I find myself sympathetic to (what I perceive to be) halemanō's frustration with some BP/w divers who post on SB. I believe that many BP/w divers on SB have found something which works best for them. Some, however, suggest a BP/w as the one universal tool that best suits all divers - this I disagree with.

I disagree with it too ... my attitude is that a BP/W is a solution for divers who discover that it suits them better than other available options ... or for those who are diving in environments that demand it.

But I would hardly use that as an excuse to lump everyone who dives a BP/W into the category of "Vest BC HATER". Given who that assertion's aimed at I find the claim ... to be nice about it ... ridiculous.

There are a bunch of people on ScubaBoard who have very strong opinions on a multitude of subjects ... you, me, and the OP happen to be among them. That doesn't make any of us necessarily any more right, wrong, or mainstream than the others ... our choices and perspectives are based on our experiences and the environment in which we dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DevonDiver]

Crush, the only frustrating thing about your 'research' is that it was based on the faulty premise that theorised that a recreational divers' needs were so remarkably varied that a BP&W was not suitable for all of them.

Prior to conducting your 'study', you may have been more productive if you spent a little time theorising about what these 'needs' might be...and why a BP&W couldn't address them.

I recommend BP&W because I feel it offers superior performance in most/all respects when compared to a jacket bcd design. In 4000 dives, I've not encountered a single occasion where I felt the BP&W was incapable of performing as I needed it - those dives include tropical and temperate waters, high current, rough water, overhead environments, mixed-gas stage deco, drysuit, wetsuit, rashguard, conducting DSDs, teaching OW classes, diving from boats, diving from shore, carring my kit on airplanes, teaching for PADI, DSAT, BSAC and SSI, taking tech courses, teaching tech courses, photography, rescues (real and simulated), expeditions to remote locations... the list goes on.

With 50 dives experience... I'd be interested to hear of what scenarios you have encountered for which a BP&W would be an unsuitable choice...

 

[BDSC]

Can you point me to a sport diving, i.e. "recreational", or "tech diving" none commercial application where a BP&W is unfit? Please be specific.

How about "Freediving". That's more of a "sport" than diving with scuba gear. A BP/W would be an unfit choice.

 

[Tortuga68]

And a jacket wouldn't?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I am not "tripping so hard about BP/W users." I challenge you to quote me where I took issue with someone "being a BP/W user."

I have made it my pet peeve to point out when the....

"INTERNET EXPERTS STATE OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT."

It doesn't just happen with BP/W's, but it happens a lot more with BP/W's. I rarely look into BP/W threads for cold water divers so there are probably plenty of....

"INTERNET EXPERTS STATING OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT."

that I don't point out, but I only have so much time for internet policing.

It's in the basic premise of this whole thread you started. It's not like you're a brand new diver looking to get advice about plates and wings because you truelly don't know anything about them and are curious. You are perfectly happy with jackets and you started this thread to needle the BP/W community, why?

And then you say that you have a pet peeve about opinions becoming facts, they're all opinions, everything's an opinion, even your point of view.
Dude, get over it.
You are tripping out.

You only have so much time for internet policing?
So you're an SB cop now?
People who take the step to go around on internet forums thinking they are cops do so because they are tripping out about stuff.

I feel sorry for you dude, you're going to get eaten up alive by your own obsessions.
You probably think about this stuff when you sleep and when you are away from your computer, don't ya?. I'll bet you can't wait to get back here to see it.

 

[Crush]

With 50 dives experience... I'd be interested to hear of what scenarios you have encountered for which a BP&W would be an unsuitable choice...

Gee, DevonDiver, that didn't take long. Bravo! The ad hominem fallacy - attack the poster, not the idea. Please read the ToS.

Please read my posts - I did not suggest, ever, that a BP&W is unsuitable for a given dive. I merely suggest that a BC (such as a Zeagle Scout) might be just as suitable for a tropical drift dive.

Edit: I wouldn't dare call my mini-experiment "research."

 

[BDSC]

And a jacket wouldn't?

It would be an unfit choice as well. They are probably equally unfit but that is simply my opinion and I have no real proof of that.

 

[ScubaSteve]

It would be an unfit choice as well. They are probably equally unfit but that is simply my opinion and I have no real proof of that.

Good thing you did not state that as fact.....someone might have gotten upset with you.

 

[DevonDiver]

Gee, DevonDiver, that didn't take long. Bravo! The ad hominem fallacy - attack the poster, not the idea. Please read the ToS.

How was mentioning that you had 50 dives experience "an attack"?!?

It indicates that your theory is based upon a very small breadth of experience - which can be used to explain why you fail to understand some of the wider issues that are considered in the debate.

Please read my posts - I did not suggest, ever, that a BP&W is unsuitable for a given dive.

Your post indicated that some BP&W advocates were somehow incorrect to recommend that equipment on the basis that they didn't understand (or had failed to ascertain) the specific needs of individual divers.

Myself, and others, have responded by questioning what specific needs divers could have, that would make a BP&W unsuitable.

Myself, and others, have responded on the basis of experience that has allowed us to dive with thousands of other divers, in numerous locations, doing numerous different activities. Do you really think that we 'fail' to ascertain the divers' needs? Or could you believe that divers with hundreds, or thousands, of dives experience...as buddies, mentors and instructors.... might have learnt exactly what these divers needs are (and, hence, do not have to ask)...

I merely suggest that a BC (such as a Zeagle Scout) might be just as suitable for a tropical drift dive.

I see no such suggestion in your post.

What you may fail to appreciate is that recommendations/comparisons for BP&W extend far beyond any single specific diving circumstance. Those, experienced, divers who recommend BP&W do so on the basis of their breadth of knowledge about how divers' requirements change, adapt and progress over time.

Given your relative experience, this is a long-term concept that you won't have any first-hand experience of. However, it is something that instructors and highly experienced divers will have encountered over their personal dive histories...and through first-hand contact as trainer and mentors for other divers.

So...yes... a Zeagle Scout may be on a par with a BP&W for a specific tropical diving scenario. But it won't 'grow' with the diver over time. It won't adapt to the divers' needs in other locations. It won't help them transition into tech. It won't enable flexibility through a modular construction. It won't form the basis of a 'balanced rig' for their buoyancy needs.... etc etc etc.

 

[DevonDiver]

Good thing you did not state that as fact.....someone might have gotten upset with you.

Good thing you did not state THAT as fact.....someone really might have gotten upset with you.