VIP Stickers & o2 cleaning

[NAM001]

I used clean room from the aspect of clean tools clean air ect.
Once the tank leaves the shop and is used it can not be guarenteed clean any more. a dirty fill any thing on the valve that may enter the tank on the next fill. I dont worry about such things but there are those who nit pic the literal use of a term. i am not refering to your post but to all the horror stories like a shop will not fill a tank unless they vis it "because once it leaves the last shop it cant be guarenteed good. The shop that will not give a nitrox fill because they did not verify it was clean them selves. Not to mention the "SAFE AIR" thing. Sorry mny statement was poorly phrased.

O2 Clean Room???? - What dive shops do you go to?

I do Aircraft Hydraulic, Maned breathing systems, and Composite Bonding and I have never seen one dive shop, or dive shop maintenance area that would even come close to a clean room. Most shops I have seen do it out the back door.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The tools thing is worth bringing up.

O2 cleaning regs is a pita in large part as if you do it right, you have to O2 clean the tools you'll use on it as well. And then do the service in nitrile gloves in what ever passes for a clean room. A room with filtered air and positive pressure is nice, but just asking for a clean counter top is probably asking a lot and I suspect many "O2 Clean" regs are not due to cross contamination after the cleaning process from counter tops and tools that are not suitably O2 clean.

If you have a shop with silicone grease in the tech area, cross contamination is pretty much a given.

 

[NAM001]

i agree. at best you see it dine on a white towel or the like. I do believe they are more than adaquatly cleaned. perhaps a pure or situation may be different. i have never understood the emphasis on o2 clean and the deal it has to be done on anything the o2 comes in touch with when you breath on it, handle it and what ever you rent to connent it to. the end result seems to say that o2 clean means less contaminated or contaminate buildup remoreduced. from the o2 tech course we ultrasounded and did the water test to see if the surface was clean by looking for beading on the material. was not clean till there was no beads. one touch with a finger and it beaded again. by that standard once it leaves the cleaning room and used it is no longer clean. too extreem of a standard for my satisfaction.

i tend to believe in something i heard a long time ago. perhaps it is from deming. 10 percent of your efforts/resources take care of 90 % of your problems. the remaining 10% of problems consume the other 90 percent of the problems.

for what is paid to get a cleaning i feel lucky to be 90 percent good when i get it back. and does it really matter when talking <40% application.

The tools thing is worth bringing up.

O2 cleaning regs is a pita in large part as if you do it right, you have to O2 clean the tools you'll use on it as well. And then do the service in nitrile gloves in what ever passes for a clean room. A room with filtered air and positive pressure is nice, but just asking for a clean counter top is probably asking a lot and I suspect many "O2 Clean" regs are not due to cross contamination after the cleaning process from counter tops and tools that are not suitably O2 clean.

If you have a shop with silicone grease in the tech area, cross contamination is pretty much a given.

 

[Gilldiver]

water test to see if the surface was clean by looking for beading on the material. was not clean till there was no beads. one touch with a finger and it beaded again.

What you just described is called "Water Break" and is very common test in metal finishing. Compared to aluminum anodize for bonding and any metal plating what is done by dive shops is extremely simple and would never make the grade.

By the way, it is a very rare processing shop that uses ultrasound cleaning, a good high temp alkaline cleaner will do and even dish washer detergent like Cascade at 120-160F is a very effective cleaner. Cascade even passed the NASA maned space craft O2 cleaning tests back in the late 90's. It was never approved in the documentation as Proctor & Gamble just laughed at the lot certification requirements required to be listed. It seems that P&G sells more in a medium sized suppermarket over a weekend than NASA and NASA'[s vendors would use in a year.

 

[NAM001]

IT ALL sounds reasonable to me as i dont believe clean is necessary and that close enough is is close enough. just so i am not mis understood. the ultrasound was used for valves and not tanks. for valves i have not seen anything but an ultrasound used. T*o be honest i dont know any way to agitate the iners of the valve that are not reachable by any tool. Cascade huh..... learn something new everyday. I dnt hink the methods overall is that important just so one of them are used. Any of them (I would guess) will clean or reduce oils to an acceptable level for our application. You know i did some digging on why they say done use o2 in titanium regs, and found that there is a fire hazzard when doing so. What i found that was not told was that the hazzard is titanium exposed to o2 at 40,000 psi and above. That may be why i think close enough is close enough. BTW what do you recommend for an alkaline cleaner. i have been using simple green and it seems to work ok.

What you just described is called "Water Break" and is very common test in metal finishing. Compared to aluminum anodize for bonding and any metal plating what is done by dive shops is extremely simple and would never make the grade.

By the way, it is a very rare processing shop that uses ultrasound cleaning, a good high temp alkaline cleaner will do and even dish washer detergent like Cascade at 120-160F is a very effective cleaner. Cascade even passed the NASA maned space craft O2 cleaning tests back in the late 90's. It was never approved in the documentation as Proctor & Gamble just laughed at the lot certification requirements required to be listed. It seems that P&G sells more in a medium sized suppermarket over a weekend than NASA and NASA'[s vendors would use in a year.

 

[Leadking]

for what is paid to get a cleaning i feel lucky to be 90 percent good when i get it back. and does it really matter when talking <40% application.

So 40% preblend? Or mixing? If you are mixing then it's 100% O2 clean you need.

 

[Thalassamania]

What you just described is called "Water Break" and is very common test in metal finishing. Compared to aluminum anodize for bonding and any metal plating what is done by dive shops is extremely simple and would never make the grade.

By the way, it is a very rare processing shop that uses ultrasound cleaning, a good high temp alkaline cleaner will do and even dish washer detergent like Cascade at 120-160F is a very effective cleaner. Cascade even passed the NASA maned space craft O2 cleaning tests back in the late 90's. It was never approved in the documentation as Proctor & Gamble just laughed at the lot certification requirements required to be listed. It seems that P&G sells more in a medium sized suppermarket over a weekend than NASA and NASA'[s vendors would use in a year.

Soaks and scrubs with simple green followed by a wash in a dishwasher (those little mesh bags are good for small parts at this stage) does wonders. A quick check with a UV light and the assembly with proper o-rings and proper grease will get you there. The tool kits (wrenches, sockets, etc.) that we take into a chamber all go though the dishwasher routinely.

 

[NAM001]

i am not taking the bait

So 40% preblend? Or mixing? If you are mixing then it's 100% O2 clean you need.

 

[Leadking]

i am not taking the bait

With a posting like that, do you even know the meaning of adiabatic?

 

[knowone]

Vance Harlow's OXYGEN HACKER'S COMPANION From AIrspeed Press