Value of the DIR approach

[akbpilot]

First off, if you don't think there is any, please don't post here!

In my opinion this belongs in the DIR forum where no one can say anything negative about DIR.

--Matt

I think I would have to agree with Matt on this one. Anyone can make a post in the DIR forum (with a few noteable exceptions), as long as they stay within TOS. I understand the need for those restrictions in that forum, frankly it's a much happier place because of it. I don't know about anyone else, but the only thing I have a problem with is the tone of the original post. Seems like you're looking for vindication and acolades for the system with no chance of criticism. It would be like asking what the best reg in the world is, but don't bother answering unless you own a Scubapro. I don't give a rat's patoot one way or another about the DIR/anti-DIR debate, I just don't like to see open discussion (within TOS) limited on this or any other forum.

 

[JeffG]

It may be, but in my experience, when face to face with a DIR-F student, they tell me to take the class.

Interesting, I have never turned down anyone. I have even dragged my video camera out to video tape them.

So my guess is that there is something else going on.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Sounds like The Matrix.

"No one...can be told what The Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself."

 

[jeckyll]

It may be, but in my experience, when face to face with a DIR-F student, they tell me to take the class.

Also, yes, it is all over the internet but I find it helpful to get a critique from someone that is there.

I don't do any internet diving, yet.

*shrug* maybe because they are students and not instructors? Just because someone has been taught something doesn't mean they are ready to turn around and teach it themselves.

Just a thought.

Or maybe it was personal

 

[Ben_ca]

It may be, but in my experience, when face to face with a DIR-F student, they tell me to take the class.

Also, yes, it is all over the internet but I find it helpful to get a critique from someone that is there.

I don't do any internet diving, yet.

That's because most DIR-F Students/recent grads are not sure they are doing the skills in presentation quality form and do not want to demo something incorrectly... some times the valuable class time is taken up correcting bad form that was picked up before the class. The best way to check out DIR is to contact the local DIR guys and dive with them..

The kicks lke the equipment are only a small part of the whole... the biggest hurdle is in the head (Hence the brain probe )


BTW hanging out on SB is internet diving

 

[joe rock]

First off, if you don't think there is any, please don't post here!

A lot of the time, I see people posting something about DIR and saying, "But I'm just a recreational diver, and these things don't apply to the diving I do." The implication is that DIR is only of significant value to the technical diver.

It got me to thinking, though. For which type of diver DOES the system offer the most value?

In the world of recreational diving, you have the most variation in gear and configurations, the most variable buddy behavior and communication techniques and skills, and great variability in skills. But the dives generally aren't high risk.

In the technical world, equipment is likely to be more similar, although there are still outliers. You're more likely to see a team ethic (except in New Jersey wreck divers, as I understand it ) and at least in caves, you're going to see a high standard of skills. But those are also the environments where the importance of rapid response to an emergency is so much higher.

So I think it's an interesting question: For which group is an approach involving standardized equipment, gases, skills and protocols going to offer the greatest increase in either comfort or safety?

OK, I'm going to respond before reading the 6 or 7 pages of this thread. So I apologize if I am repetitive. With a very limited knowledge of DIR I asked a question on the DIR forum. Mostly got very informative respectful answers. Basically, what I got out of the responses is that DIR is a "total" approach. To be DIR means you do everything the system prescribes. For me, that's unfortunate because I think aspects of DIR are awesome for any diver. I don't think the rigid holistic "system" is completely appropiate for recreational diving. I am not a technical diver so I can't comment on that. But I do NJ wreck diving and again, parts of the DIR "system" makes wonderful sense, other parts I don't think so. Maybe it's not even a recreational v. technical conversation, could it be a situational conversation?

Can you see me in a DIRF class with my back-inflate BC, split fins, air2 and pony bottle ?

Just some random thoughts.

JR

 

[sea nmf]

That's because most DIR-F Students/recent grads are not sure they are doing the skills in presentation quality form and do not want to demo something incorrectly... some times the valuable class time is taken up correcting bad for that was picked up before the class. The best way to check out DIR is to contact the local DIR guys and dive with them..

The kicks lke the equipment are only a small part of the whole... the biggest hurdle is in the head (Hence the brain probe )


BTW hanging out on SB is internet diving

This actually makes sense to me. Thanks!

As to the couple of comments about something else going on or it being personal, I choose to interpret that in a positive way since you didn't exactly spell it out (I know there really isn't any way you could since you weren't there).

 

[cerich]

OK, I'm going to respond before reading the 6 or 7 pages of this thread. So I apologize if I am repetitive. With a very limited knowledge of DIR I asked a question on the DIR forum. Mostly got very informative respectful answers. Basically, what I got out of the responses is that DIR is a "total" approach. To be DIR means you do everything the system prescribes. For me, that's unfortunate because I think aspects of DIR are awesome for any diver. I don't think the rigid holistic "system" is completely appropiate for recreational diving. I am not a technical diver so I can't comment on that. But I do NJ wreck diving and again, parts of the DIR "system" makes wonderful sense, other parts I don't think so. Maybe it's not even a recreational v. technical conversation, could it be a situational conversation?

Can you see me in a DIRF class with my back-inflate BC, split fins, air2 and pony bottle ?

Just some random thoughts.

JR

Take a NAUI intro to Tech course, same in water skills, HOG/NTEC (DIR except you can use computers) config, not as much lifestyle stuff thrown in.

 

[Jasonmh]

If DIR-F is a class on fundementals that should have been taught in OW, why is it that (in my experience) those that have taken it are reluctant to pass along some of the good information, but instead encourage you to take the class?? Can't they show you the kicks? Can't they tell help you with the trim? I'm not necessarily talking about free instruction, but just divers helping divers.

Well, I can't speak for the person you are talking about. There is nothing in the class that is a secret. Sometimes people might appear to be reluctant to help because of other reasons, such as:
- not feeling like they are good enough to be giving others instruction
- topics that are either difficult to explain or could easily be taken incorrectly if either out of context or not presented by a qualified instructor
- not wanting to be seen as "telling you what to do", or not wanting to be seen as telling you your equipment "X" is not good enough or "wrong"
They sure can be just divers helping divers, we do it, and I see it all the time. I'm sorry if you ran into someone who didn't want to help you. I have not run into some one yet where if I said "You have really good trim, would you mind looking at mine and telling me if my trim looks good?", they would not help.

It seems like a de-coder ring type of mind set to me, also. Although there have been some extremely helpful folks to me on certain aspects, but others are tight-lipped and say "take the class".

There is nothing that is a secret, and everything is available to anyone who wants to learn it. There is a course outline in the GUE site that tells you exactly what is expected and pretty much spells out what you will learn. At the beginning of the class the parameters for passing are clearly laid out, no secrets or surprises. Many people have to take the class more than once to "pass", and they might not feel like they are qualified to answer your questions. The "take the class" comment can in itself sometimes be an attempt to be helpful. There is so much you can learn in that 2-4 day period that would take sooo long to try to piece together any other way.

 

[Jasonmh]

Interesting, I have never turned down anyone. I have even dragged my video camera out to video tape them.

So my guess is that there is something else going on.

Geez.. even Jeff is helping out.. that is crazy