Using octo upside down

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@Bowers aspirating water is the bigger issue and can send a stressed diver into a state of panic. Most all regulators will breathe very wet when upside down and you can't purge a second stage when it's upside down which is truly dangerous.

Absolutely been there. It was a pool dive for a dry suit class, and I had to take all my gear off and put it back on. I took it off the wrong way (jacket bc and single tank with rec hoses) and needed more slack so I decided to switch to my octo. Because it too was pointing the wrong way, I had the brilliant idea to put it in upside down.

I immediately choked on a mouthful of water. Fortunately, I didn’t panic, but it was a rough several minutes, not least because it was several breaths before I was able to get my gear squared away enough to flip the reg over.

I had decided to do everything I could do to not go to the surface (if this happened at 60’ I wouldn’t want to bolt to the surface...) and worked it out eventually, but it was not pleasant.

I’ve never even after that had an Omni-style octo, mainly because they suck horribly and I’ve always had the personal rule that my octo was always as good as my primary. Diving primary-donate helps to solve the temptation for a cheap octo, too... :)

The lack of sidedness was a big reason I wanted to dive Poseidon, but it turns out I really dislike them on several levels. So that ruined that...

Primary donate and training helps. Not expecting a stressed buddy to locate and grab a random reg in a random place and with a random orientation makes it much easier for everyone to ensure they get everything smoothly.
 
The specific situation I was hoping to negate is someone, out of air, panicked, despirately grabs my octo, rips it loose and shoves it in their mouth for a life saving breath only to suck in a lung full of water because in their panic they didn't take the time to look. Seems to me a octo that just flat works either way is a great idea in that case. Maybe, I am just overlooking something.

Seeing as you wrote it...

The problem is trying to improve a situation that shouldn’t happen. Rather than buy an inferior piece of gear (if Omni-orientation were better all regs would have it) to address a situation that has multiple ways of stopping, it would be better to rethink the entire process that ended with such a near catastrophe.

If you already presuppose the panicked out of air diver grabbing randomly for random scuba gear, then yes, you have a point. If there were zero cost for using the gear you envision, you might have a point. But there is a cost, and you do not have to presuppose the situation you do.

Besides, my first open water instructor told me this: the octo is not for your buddy. The octo is for you. If they are truly OOA, they will simply rip the reg out of your mouth.

So, in tech, we simply train and plan that way! :). Problem solved, and we all get to use top-quality regs in the process! :)
 
+1 on primary donate as the solution. Them grabbing an octo at a random orientation does not help the situation.

+1 on wanting a Poseidon second stage as well, though not for this reason. I'd like one as it is supposed to be very easy breathing and it's rather small, so ideal for my necklaced backup tucked under my chin (on its own first stage as I prefer sidemount or tiny doubles). My experience breathing puck regs was that they were harder to breath.
 
The specific situation I was hoping to negate is someone, out of air, panicked, despirately grabs my octo, rips it loose and shoves it in their mouth for a life saving breath only to suck in a lung full of water because in their panic they didn't take the time to look. Seems to me a octo that just flat works either way is a great idea in that case. Maybe, I am just overlooking something.

In the scenario you describe, they are going to grab the second stage in your mouth, nothing else.

Best option is primary on longer hose, 40", and it is the one to donate/grab when your buddy is OOA. Your backup second stage should be the same as the primary and on a shorter hose, 24", attached to your neck with a necklace. You give your primary to the OOA and you take the spare from under your chin and put in your mouth. Check this video:

 
The specific situation I was hoping to negate is someone, out of air, panicked, despirately grabs my octo, rips it loose and shoves it in their mouth for a life saving breath only to suck in a lung full of water because in their panic they didn't take the time to look. Seems to me a octo that just flat works either way is a great idea in that case. Maybe, I am just overlooking something.


@rhwestfall Already said it, but you can use the Apex Egress in either direction, without leaks or other issues. I have one and it works fine.

I'm sure there are other brands available, but this can be used in both cold water and warm water diving. I dive in cold water so in order to make it warm water, it's a quick trip to the LDS for an adjustment and I'm all set.

Give your LDS a call and see what else they may suggest.

Good luck.

John
 
The specific situation I was hoping to negate is someone, out of air, panicked, despirately grabs my octo, rips it loose and shoves it in their mouth for a life saving breath only to suck in a lung full of water because in their panic they didn't take the time to look. Seems to me a octo that just flat works either way is a great idea in that case. Maybe, I am just overlooking something.

read up on primary donate. If someone just comes up and grabs your octo, it is likely going to be the regulator in your mouth. Read up on primary donate, you'll likely switch over after reading about it.

@tmassey their breathing characteristics are not really for everyone though the Xstream is a lot less violent than the Jetstream was.

@Geobound what on earth are they doing to make it "cold water" vs "warm water"?
 
read up on primary donate. If someone just comes up and grabs your octo, it is likely going to be the regulator in your mouth. Read up on primary donate, you'll likely switch over after reading about it.

@tmassey their breathing characteristics are not really for everyone though the Xstream is a lot less violent than the Jetstream was.

@Geobound what on earth are they doing to make it "cold water" vs "warm water"?
Might be that @Geobound has different IP on the two different 1st stages, and is having it tuned in place after switching systems. Might not be necessary as Egress is balanced, but no harm in it.
 
I use the Oceanic Octo Swiv. It does breathe a touch less effortlessly than my Zeagle. It was used once in burst hose incident. No complaints by the diver that it did not breathe as well as a matching first stage. It also is not prone to freeflow as it is tuned now. Mine does not leak whether used diaphragm up or down.
 
I'm new to SCUBA and planning to purchase some gear for my wife and I. I apologise if is this has been covered in a previous post. It would seem to make very good sense to have an octo that can be used upside down or right side up. I could see this being a major (if not fatal) issue when someone is in despirate need of air. As best i can tell, this seems to be a feature different than most octos have. All that being said ,are there any puck style octos out there that can be used in either orientation? Would you recommend them? We will always be diving in warm waters.

Hi David

Great questions

Like many other posters I believe that "primary donate" with a bungeed secondary around the neck is the safest practice. It is what I use and what my children have been taught. Among other things there is less question as to the proper orientation of the air supply to be used by the out-of-air diver.

But it is my experience that a properly adjusted regulator will more or less work in any orientation. I have very ordinary regulators of simple design from the early 1980s, the main difference between them and most regulators on the market being that they have a metal body rather than a plastic one. I have my primary regulators set up to be a little more sensitive, about 1.5" cracking pressure, compared to 2.5" for the secondaries. It doesn't matter much but the idea is that I want the primary to breathe freely and I want the secondary to be a little more resistant to freeflow. In any case, I find that I can breathe my regs in any orientation although they will breathe wetter and tend to freeflow a little if inverted. This is true of both my primary and secondary.

Breathing a wet reg is a skill that can be learned. It is more a matter of expecting the water and being prepared to spit it back into the reg than anything else although tongue and jaw position are part of it.

Similarly purging an upside-down reg is possible but you will get a mouthful of water and are going to have to do something with it. Spit it out, swallow it, open your jaw so it sits in the bottom of your mouth to make room for air.

It is useful to be able to position one's body inverted while diving so as to be able to see under rocks and ledges. Of course the reg is going to misbehave a little. Builds skill as well as letting you see stuff.

Finally a fact to consider is that the scuba diving accident statistics have never revealed problems with any of the basic gear we all use. There isn't, for example, anything to suggest that the expensive-brand gear is any safer than the discount-brand gear, or even that primary donate is safer than an octo. The eitiology of typical dive accidents has more to do with buoyancy control problems than breathing air supply, more to do with planning, monitoring, and navigation failures than equipment, more to do with cool calm collected behavior when tshtf than redundant systems.

In other words, more people are killed by stuck power inflators than anything that went wrong with their reg.

So, my advice, buy whatever reg pleases you, and if you think a reg that is supposed to be more all-orientation-ey will make you a safer diver, great. Maybe it will, and I doubt if it will do any harm. But whatever reg you have, try breathing it in all orientations, upside down, on your back, sideways, whatever, and get used to how it acts and what you have to do to keep breathing from it. That will do more for you IMO, safety wise, then reg choice.
 
I'm new to SCUBA and planning to purchase some gear for my wife and I. I apologise if is this has been covered in a previous post. It would seem to make very good sense to have an octo that can be used upside down or right side up. I could see this being a major (if not fatal) issue when someone is in despirate need of air. As best i can tell, this seems to be a feature different than most octos have. All that being said ,are there any puck style octos out there that can be used in either orientation? Would you recommend them? We will always be diving in warm waters.

The Mares MV Octopus works upside down, is cheap and good. The Mares brand is popular in Europe where it's cheap and you get it serviced everywhere, but since you're from Arkansas better check first if a local dive shop offers Mares service and about the prices.
Better don't mix brands between first and second stages, so for example don't buy just the Mares MV for an Apeks first stage.
As you're concerned about confusion when someone is in desparate need of air: the best way is to always stay close together and keep an eye on each other, and practice air sharing frequently. The method (octo or primary donate) doesn't matter as long as you're a fixed buddy pair wth your wife and practice your way of air sharing. When it comes to instant buddies however, anything can happen and a confused bad buddy can mess up every air donation method.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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