Tri-Mix Agencies?

[David_57]

Sure, going deep and not being ready for the consequences will get you killed pretty quick. There is a big difference between an emergency at 100ft versus 200ft and deeper. There is a concept called the virtual overhead, whck you learn in AN/DP meaning you might have a clear shot to the surface, but that clear shot may be a fatal journey.

90-110 ft 30/30 perfect mix for this depth recreational divers can do this and stay within the NDL limits but safer as head more clear due to avoidance of narcosis by adding a little trimix to the brew so in this case the divers with a recreational Trimix cert would probably be safer?

Not sure where 200ft would come into it?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

90-110 ft 30/30 perfect mix for this depth recreational divers can do this and stay within the NDL limits but safer as head more clear due to avoidance of narcosis by adding a little trimix to the brew so in this case the divers with a recreational Trimix cert would probably be safer?

Not sure where 200ft would come into it?

Safer? In GUE terms maybe. Most of my dves are 95-115ft in depth. I dont use trimix and wont for that. There are some people who narc easier than others, just like some people are 02 sensitive. I have a dive buddy who cant dive 32% past 60 ft or so, cant do 100% at all. They will tell you if they do dont trust them. So in essence there isnt a correct answer to your question.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As for why: just reading the GUE tech manual or taking a GUE class would be enough for anyone to salivate for the holy grail of trimix. Its really effing annoying to be told how amazing something is only to be told, "you cant have this till you grow up into an adult tech diver." That seems to be the mentality, but the truth is that it doesn't have to be for the greatest divers on earth, which is evidenced by the recreational trimix curriculums for even the agencies with the highest standards (GUE and UTD).

The only thing amazing about trimix is how expensive it is. From a "skills" perspective it works the same as air ... breathe in, breathe out.

The first thing I'd want to know about a relatively inexperienced diver is why he wants to learn it ... because the only valid use for helium is to do deep dives. And if depth is calling to him, I'd want to learn a bit more about his reasons for wanting to learn it now.

That isn't because I want to pass judgment on his physical ability to manage his basic skills ... it's because before I would choose to go deep with someone, I want to know something about their mental approach to that type of diving. The fact that someone's willing to fast track to deep diving throws up some red flags that maybe ... just maybe ... this person isn't really as prepared for those kind of dives as he might think he is.

That's worth raising the question ... because all too often people jump into depth without really understanding all the risks, and sometimes they end up on the wrong end of a DAN report because of it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaFeenD]

The only thing amazing about trimix is how expensive it is. From a "skills" perspective it works the same as air ... breathe in, breathe out.

the price is amazing for sure

The first thing I'd want to know about a relatively inexperienced diver is why he wants to learn it ... because the only valid use for helium is to do deep dives. And if depth is calling to him, I'd want to learn a bit more about his reasons for wanting to learn it now.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree with your critique of the divers mentality, because I think that is important to determine before any training occurs. However, I disagree that helium is only useful for deep dives (>=150ft) (as long as money isnt an issue).

From what I understand significant decreases in WOB may help prevent CO2 buildup which can help prevent additional narcosis and decrease the risk of DCS. This not only makes the dive safer but also more enjoyable.

Regardless, I didn't assume deep when he asked, because I want to learn trimix, but not necessarily for deep dives. I think it will be a fine gas for 120-130 ft, which will allow me to explore many of the dives around me without the significant narcosis of 21% or EAN. Even some divers who really experience severe narcosis at "shallower" depths (of which there are some on these boards) of 90-100 could benefit from a little helium (30/30 or 25/25).

 

[David_57]

Safer? In GUE terms maybe. Most of my dves are 95-115ft in depth. I dont use trimix and wont for that. There are some people who narc easier than others, just like some people are 02 sensitive. I have a dive buddy who cant dive 32% past 60 ft or so, cant do 100% at all. They will tell you if they do dont trust them. So in essence there isnt a correct answer to your question.

What has this got to do with your below post? I am saying that diving trimix alone will not get you into a hazard as you don't have to dive technical depths on trimix. Divers that can afford it have the option to use trimix if certified at depths well withing recreational limits.

And yes I am well aware that diving to depths beyond your training can get you into trouble but diving trimix at 110ft nah sorry we are not in agreement, now Nitrox thats a whole different story in IMHO much more hazardous than helium if you do not have the training, especially beyond 40%.

you said:
I will say this. I agree with a lot of your post, but not all. I stand by what Rainer said and my post. There is no diver I have met that was ready for the responsibility of the hazards one can get themsefl into diving trimix. Have there been some that dd it? Probably, but luck does run out. there is WAY too much to See without rushing. Its not going anywhere and I would rather meet someone alive than read about them dead.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

What has this got to do with your below post? I am saying that diving trimix alone will not get you into a hazard as you don't have to dive technical depths on trimix. Divers that can afford to have the option to use trimix if certified at depths well withing recreational depths. And yes I am well aware that diving to depths beyond your training can get you into trouble but diving trimix at 110ft nah sorry we are not in agreement, now Nitrox thats a whole different story in IMHO much more hazardous than helium if you do not have the training, especially beyond 40%.


I will say this. I agree with a lot of your post, but not all. I stand by what Rainer said and my post. There is no diver I have met that was ready for the responsibility of the hazards one can get themsefl into diving trimix. Have there been some that dd it? Probably, but luck does run out. there is WAY too much to See without rushing. Its not going anywhere and I would rather meet someone alive than read about them dead.

I answered your question. That wasnt a reply to my own post so GET THAT STRAIGHT!! Adding helium adds hazerds that you dont have with conventional gas. I stand by my post, another thing. Quit bringing up RECREATIONL TRIMIX. Thats an OXYMORON in itsself. The OP asked about trimx, not rec trimx. If he had asked about Rec mix, I would still say whats the rush.

 

[David_57]

I answered your question. That wasnt a reply to my own post so GET THAT STRAIGHT!! Adding helium adds hazerds that you dont have with conventional gas. I stand by my post, another thing. Quit bringing up RECREATIONL TRIMIX. Thats an OXYMORON in itsself. The OP asked about trimx, not rec trimx. If he had asked about Rec mix, I would still say whats the rush.

Ok no need to shout just explain why helium as a gas is so hazardous say compared to air when someone is diving at a depth of 90ft to 100ft?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Ok no need to shout just explain why helium as a gas is so hazardous say compared to air when someone is diving at a depth of 90ft to 100ft?

Im not shouting, that would wake up my co-workers.. At that depth it would depend on BT as to deco but thats with any gas. Again unless your narced easy I wouldnt use it at that depth but there are plenty who probably should use it.

 

[PfcAJ]

The ascent needs to be more controlled with helium compared to nitrogen based gases...

 

[David_57]

The ascent needs to be more controlled with helium compared to nitrogen based gases...

The same as decent (MOD) needs to be controlled when diving with Nitrox? Only the consequences are more dire with nitrox you don't just get bent as with Trimix (unlikely at rec depths within the NDL) but could pass out and drown if you exceed 1.6 as you are diving at 110ft (rec depth within the NDL) on 40% nitrox.