Today's OW Course

[john1bl]

Bottom line for me though - even the much sneered at PADI OW qualification, IMHO, the skills outlined, if *mastered*
would make one a reasonable or good diver. The problem isn't the curriculum/content, it's the time allowed to the course. Like I say, IMHO.
J

I agree with you on this point. I think the real problem is the "diver mill" way of training.I believe training speed is a problem not the course it self. I had a few weeks before class to learn the bookwork and swam in the pool. This helped me just consecrate on the dive I was doing and learning skills.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the real question here is that amount of training required to dive. From what I have read here, a person should not even THINK about having a reg in there mouth anywhere closer that a mile from any body of water unless they have had at least GUE-F or SAR training or military equivalent!!! The "old" training was out of the military and the people were not diving!! They were clearing beaches planting explosives ETC. The diving was how they got there,and not there mission. The training was taught with task loading so that the diving would not be the only thing that are doing. In SAR and cave Diving your are not diving primarily you are searching or caving. The diving is just the mode of transport and thus has to be second nature in its safe execution. Most of the people who dive, do it for and experience on vacation and might not ever breath from a reg again, and all they are doing is diving. I see a lot of instructor posting here and when your are with a class underwater you and teaching and not diving primarily. So I ask the question how much dose one really need the know if one is diving primarily(Not teaching,searching,or blowing stuff up)???????

Minimally ...

- You should have a reasonable comfort level being underwater. It doesn't count if you have to put effort into convincing yourself you're having fun down there ... that's a stressor, and going to take your mind away from what you should be paying attention to.

- You should have enough buoyancy control to keep yourself off the bottom and off the surface unless you are trying to be there. People who "accidentally" lose buoyancy at their safety stop and pop to the surface didn't earn their OW certification. People who keep kicking stuff on the bottom, or who have to plop down on their knees every time they need to check their pressure gauge didn't either. It's not their fault ... they were never shown how to be a diver.

- You should be able to clear your mask, check your air regularly, signal to your buddy, or look at your dive computer and/or take a compass reading without losing buoyancy control. It's really not that hard ... you just have to have been shown how to do it, and have practiced it a few times.

- You should know more about dive planning than a couple of slogans like "plan your dive and dive your plan" or "end the dive with 500 psi". If your instructor told you those things, but didn't tell you how to achieve them, they failed to provide the training you paid for.

- You should be able to descend down a buoy line without banging into the bottom. Once again, it ain't rocket surgery. All it takes is to be shown how to do it and practice a few times. This could have (and should have) been done as part of your confined water training, when some additional practice as part of your OW checkout dives.

- You should be able to maintain visual contact with, and communicate with, your dive buddy. You should be able to descend and ascend together. If you can't do these things, you don't HAVE a dive buddy.

And while none of those things are specifically spelled out as skills in the standards, you are supposed to have at least STARTED learning them in OW class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Forgive me if the borders on a hijack, but how do you work this equipment-wise... since most students don't have things like BDC's, tanks, weights, wetsuits, etc.

Do you keep a supply yourself in the different sizes?

This is my garage ... that's only part of what I had back then, and I've acquired a bit more since that pic was taken ...

For BCDs ... one of the great advantages to a BP/W is that they're basically one-size-fits-all ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rstofer]

That depends upon ones perspective; it's a business for the minority and a hobby for the majority. Perhaps you can get around to answering my question: how is it that you're so convinced that you're right in your assumptions?

By observation! There was an LDS that had an instructor, highly regarded by our herd, who had a scheduling conflict. He discussed it with the training director at the mother shop and rescheduled without the local manager knowing anything about it. Nor did we, unfortunately.

As a result, that instructor is not longer hired to teach out of that shop. Instructors come and go. There's plenty around.

BTW, the instructor is still highly regarded and we use him outside of the LDS context. But that demonstrates how even a respected instructor is unimportant in the overall LDS scheme of things.

You're talking to the wrong guy. It's an Instructor's moral responsibility to turn-out competent divers and not to certify them until they can meet the standards. Do you think I'm wrong? If not, what are you going on about?

No, I don't. But if you can't do it withing a framework you can't change then you better come up with a different plan. PADI isn't going to change. No amount of hand wringing will ever bring back the '60s. If you want to crank out good divers you're going to have to take one of two approaches: First, just do it anyway in the context of OW. Teach all that's required and augment it with all that's needed Second, advocate and sell additional training right after OW. Otherwise, you're (collectively, not individually) just perpetuating the situation.

But I absolutely agree that the only solution rests with the instructors. The agency won't change, the LDS doesn't want to change and the instructor is the only one who can control the outcome.

Richard

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bottom line for me though - even the much sneered at PADI OW qualification, IMHO, the skills outlined, if *mastered*
would make one a reasonable or good diver. The problem isn't the curriculum/content, it's the time allowed to the course. Like I say, IMHO.
J

Actually, when the PADI OW skills are truly "mastered" ... meaning the diver can comfortably and repeatably do them ... the end result is a very well-trained OW diver.

I once worked with a PADI instructor who was very good at turning out exceptionally trained OW graduates ... going strictly by standards and applying his interpretation of "mastery".

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ytsejam]

Is a diver supposed to get a card even if a splash of water in the face startle them like they are about to die? I've seen this happen,not once but several times, makes me wonder how do they shower.

On my 6th dive, I dove with 3 friends (2 of them OW classmates and the other a guy with 100+ dives, who still struggles for boyancy control and who lacks proper awareness while underwater). My buddy who should NOT have gotten his c-card, dove for the first time to a depth of 66fsw (our check-out dive in OW was at 35 fsw). We all failed him by not factoring into our dive plan his consumption rate at such a depth nor his poor boyancy skills and awareness, he failed himself by not communicating his air level until there wasn't enough to see him safely to the surface and then he started darting upwards because his near empty tank made him positively boyant. In the end I managed to get his attention, turn head down and use my fins to lower myself to around 15fsw where I grabbed a rock (we were diving by the coast). Thankfully he mimicked me, came close enough so I could give him my octopus and grab him by the BCD and we stayed there for 5 mins (just to be safe) before ascending together to the surface.
This could have ended badly, because he could not even be trusted to remember to exhale while ascending uncontrollably and almost OOA. This drove home a lot of what I wrote in my previous post.

Grow a pair and do not give a card to those that don't belong in the water.

Amen to that! Still each of us should be responsible for our actions and aware of our limitations. Anyone can have their own agenda, but the final say is mine when my life is hanging in the balance.

 

[InTheDrink]

Can anyone remember what the dropout rate is after OW? Is it something insane like 80% that don't go on to do further training? I wonder whether, if this could be shown to be because of the quality of the OW course (assuming that's the reason - big assumption) whether the agencies would be more circumspect knowing they're effectively kissing repeat revenue/customers goodbye? I know that I'd hate to be losing customers at that rate.

 

[sabbath999]

First and only thought... dude, let's load up some of that gear and go diving

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First and only thought... dude, let's load up some of that gear and go diving

You're one of the people on this board I would look forward to diving with ... always enjoyed your attitude ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[sabbath999]

Can anyone remember what the dropout rate is after OW? Is it something insane like 80% that don't go on to do further training? I wonder whether, if this could be shown to be because of the quality of the OW course (assuming that's the reason - big assumption) whether the agencies would be more circumspect knowing they're effectively kissing repeat revenue/customers goodbye? I know that I'd hate to be losing customers at that rate.

Personal observation here with absolutely nothing to base it on... a lot of the dropout is from people who learn to dive for one vacation trip... like a honeymoon... and then just don't go back to it.

The guy who taught us to dive and I discussed this once... about his frustration at teaching so many people who just wanted to go to the blue water one particular trip and dive, and then that was it for them...