There is one more factor to consider. We live right on the ocean and the life-span of a smoke detector in our home is less than a year, sometimes as little as six months. They fail by going off and never resetting. The salt air kills all electronic devices, including smoke detectors, in almost no time. Hopefully there are some marine-specific models that are used on boats, but if they are using regular consumer models they will not last long.
This morning in Egypt ...
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RedSeaDiver2
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that has been my experience as well - detectors from the likes of Home Depot will quickly cause a lot of problems on a boat.
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Boats don’t use smoke detectors for these and other obvious reasons. Marine fire alarms and suppression use heat detectors, set at 185 degrees. Engineroom heat detectors are allowed to be set at 205 to prevent spurious alarms.
scubaozy
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Cabins do have smoke detectors. I have reported here an incident we had a year ago; in the storm, portholes have been leaking and causing short circuit that started melting the wiring. Room was unoccupied but smoke alarm kicked in and I and another person heard it and raised the alarm. I don't want to think about what would happen if they did not work.
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Sorry, what I meant was that real ships with real marine fire detection systems approved by IMO use heat detectors. Systems which cost tens of thousands and do automatic things like secure ventilation, close ventilation dampers, shut down engines, fire off the FM200 system, alert the crew and passengers and make a note on your AIS.
Liveaboard dive boats have crappy Home Depot smoke detectors with dead batteries. I’ve sailed on both.
Mike Walker
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I've been pondering this as well - especially in the context of how difficult it has been post accident for passengers to get together documentation to get home.
Many boats do passports in a drybag but we've seen problems with this where the responsible party forgets or can't access them. One boat i was on kept the bag in the main exit path with the understanding that while a crew member was designated, anyone who could was to grab it in an emergency.
But to take this a step further I would propose:
Boat has 3 bright yellow watertight pelican/storm cases. Each passenger is allowed x amount of space in each pelican with what they put inside going in an additional tamper evident envelope. The idea being that one could put their passport in one, their wallet with backup ID and some cash in another, and maybe some photocopies of IDs, backup phone and a backup credit card in a third. Then, the Pelicans are locked (keys to the captain) and stored in distributed float-away locations around the boat (i.e. on the roof, on the bow, on the dive deck). If you want to get fancy, attach them to any float-away AIS beacons that might be onboard. It's not a guarantee they are recoverable but it improves the odds.
The problem with an individual 'grab bag' in your cabin solution is that it can fail in the event of the boat going down when you are out diving or similar. You aren't always in your room. It's an important part of a solution, but I think the above adds robustness.
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Hi @Mike Walker
Until I see an nearly foolproof alternative, I will stick with my ditch bag. It also allows me to pack a few extra items I might want. The ditch bag is not perfect, but better than most people do.
Until I see an nearly foolproof alternative, I will stick with my ditch bag. It also allows me to pack a few extra items I might want. The ditch bag is not perfect, but better than most people do.
drrich2
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Critical analysis of cost/benefit matters regarding potential interventions is very important in business. It doesn't shoot down every good 'brain-storming' idea, but tends to kill a lot of them.
It's nearly always possible to 'do more,' given enough money, time and consumer/industry interest, and there will likewise always be more accidents (perhaps fewer and with fewer fatalities), leading to the big question there's no universally accepted answer to..when is what's done enough?
'When there's never another fatality' isn't realistic. Is it every customer bringing their own CO and smoke alarm? I watch for people voting with their feet, and if that many liveaboards are in business in the wake of the pandemic, a lot of people accept of the status quo (granted, some out of ignorance).
Part of what drives this thread and others like it is that we don't all have the same answer. Prior to the Conception disaster, I (who'd had a trip on the very similar Vision) hadn't thought much about having a good 2nd exit from the staterooms area. Now I do. But I can't say I anticipate researching the smoke alarm system in use before booking a trip, nor do I think most will.
I wish we had objective figures for how the risk of serious injury or death in a dive boat fire in a given region compares to the risk from other causes. In the wake of the Conception disaster, fire is on my mind...but so are drowning, slipping and falling onboard, topside crime/violence, possibility of 'bad air,' DCS, immersion pulmonary edema, hazardous marine life, malaria, tuberculosis (in some regions), dengue, chikungunya, and some of you travel to places with 'unrest' where political problems and terrorist concerns are at least on your minds (I've seen this discussed about the Philippines, and cartel crime in Mexico).
Does anyone here know if there are any statistical figures for where boat fire rates on the risk list for the dangers we face taking dive trips?
Mike Walker
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But, the other way to look at it is 'what are the most solvable problems'. There's nothing a boat owner/operator can practically do to reduce malaria risk. There's plenty of things (at a variety of price points) they can do to improve the odds of escape in a fire or collision. Prioritizing based on ranking lethality of specific risks ignores the advantages of reducing cumulative risk by fixing all the easiest to solve factors.
(I do agree though, I'd love to see these statistics.)
This is not a good approach. The impact of solving that problem must also be considered, ohterwise you end up trying to "bail out your boat with a teaspoon." What you are really trying to do is look at every potential action in terms if its impact AND its difficulty; then you look for those actions that are BOTH high impact and low difficulty, then you consider those that are high-impact and high-difficulty, then you possibly consider those that are low impact. YOu never bother with thos that are low impact and high diffculty.
The point is, that tackling problems just because they are easy is a poor practice, and possilby wased effort/resources.
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