The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[Ontario Diver]

Well. on a single item or purchase; you don't lose anything.

What you could gain (at a good shop), is several different regs to test dive, someone to handle returns/repairs directly, advice, training, a chance to hold/see what you are buying, loaners when yours breaks/is in maintenance, a place to hang out, meet other divers, get training, get O-rings immediately, watch videos on rainy days, maybe even get some air and training.

Of course, you'll need a good shop and a friendly attitude.

 

[redacted]

By charging inflated prices for service or even refusing service. Shouldn't be a problem if you have enough dealers in your area and settle prices before service is rendered.

If you take care to clean your rig well after use, you will probably find that you can go 2 to 3 years between "annual service". Even servicing every other year & paying for parts will be cheaper than servicing annually with free part but paying labor charge. By the way, this free parts for life thing with SP seems to be coming from the US distributer and is not offered or honored by other distributers like SP Spain. This, I believe, accounts for many of the differences between our LDS and Diveinn. I believe LP is getting their SP line from non-US distributers in countries with stronger consumer protection laws than we have.

I would think that the Mfgr would still have to provide free recall service but you may get no help from the LDS with it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You may not loose anything. But let me give an example of some things that are happening. It's not your fault but as a shop owner it's not mine either. I am a cressi sub dealer. Diveinn sells cressi regs for less than I can buy them for Therefore, I have never even sold one cressi reg. Now cressi just came out with some new regs. It isn't worth the time or cost for me to go to the repair class so I can't service them at all. If you buy one from diveinn and come in for service I will refuse. Not because of where you bought it but because it's not worth the investment for me. In the case of other brands I can only become authorized to service brands for which I am a dealer. In order to remain a dealer I have to sell product. I don't sell much so I don't have very many dealerships. That means I am unable to service the brands with a big online presance. I would like to but the insurance company says no and the manufacturer won't sell me parts of manuals.

Here is another instance. We haven't sold any sherwood regs since they were allowed to go online. When the maximus was recalled a letter was sent to dealers instructing us to fix the regs for free. I have never sold a maximus why would I fix one for free? Either you pay me or the manufacturer must pay me but I won't do it for free. And no...the manufacturer does not pay us for warentee labor. If we're selling the stuff it's a cost of doing business if we're not selling them it's just a cost and I have enough of those.

 

[snobeach]

Nice to hear someone else placing the blame where it belongs!
Mike, I have a question though - Are these practices all really legal? Is it just a question of the right person/people being made aware? If so, wouldn't the LDS's nationwide have made them aware for their own sake? The LDS is in a lousy position so it is hard to believe no one has tried. Do you know? At least it seems we've got some real steam brewing here and Flytyer is going to take a crack at it! (I'm definately staying tuned...)
Where/How does LP get their gear and manage to pay a lower price than an LDS? I assumed they would all pay the same wholesale prices? By all reports, I understand LP's equipement to be legitimate.
Based on the strict rules AQ/SP(and many others) have for their dealer's, don't they at least owe it to them to protect them??? Isn't the LDS their greatest asset? How do they get away with this, playing both sides of the fence? :shaking: It really is unbelievable!!! Scuba reform/deregulation may be in order, don't ya think?

 

[trymixdiver]

answer me this though:

how do you know its a grey market item ! Without asking me where i got it, there is no way to tell where i got it. or am i wrong?

Andy

I did buy 2 SP regs from my LDS. I dont shop there now because they are not honest, but the LDS i took it to for service didnt ask me a thing, they just did the work.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't know if all the practices are legal but if a manufacturer drops me as a dealer why couldn't they just say they did it because they want to. Some for instance try to stop you from carrying other brands. Sometimes they just tell you they think you have too many and you can't have theirs unless something goes (and they will be happy to make suggestions). The high anual sales minimums and opening order requirements limit how many brands a small shop can carry. It would be hard to prove the motive is ellegal. Also do you think a diveshop would need to close before the started any action? Once they start making waves they will certainly be dropped. Many LDS have been doing business in this climate (without the online competition) for many years and I'm not sure they see anything wrong with it. At one time some of these practices worked for them. It prevents a nondealer from servicing the brands you sell and forces users of that brand to come into your store for service. It also limits the number of dealers for a given brand.

 

[snobeach]

I do understand the difficulties, and I did not mean to suggest that an individual shop should take on the problem alone...that would be suicide, unless they are getting out of the business anyway! It's just too bad they can't unite nationally to change the system. I am just a consumer and I don't begin to assume I understand all the different aspects of this. Not likely. I do however, find it really hard not to question and even harder not to feel bad for the LDS's stuck in the middle.

 

[Welshman]

Mike

Where do the likes of LP get their equipment. The manufacturer has to have sold it to someone. this may be a dumb question but I'd be interested to knoe.

Regards

 

[Welshman]

Mike

i think this ties in to the question I asked on the related thread in New 2 Scuba.

What I find odd is awap's comment that SP is getting their product from distributors in non US countries with stronger consumer protection laws.

I thought the US was the cradle of free enterprise but I have noticed that some of the prices which US divers pay are way higher than we pay in the UK and elsewhere in Europe.

Regards

 

[nk5]

Hey, Ontario Diver! Put me in touch with the Canadian Immigration people. Most of the stuff you said about your LDS do not exist where I live. I took my reg to my LDS (where I had purchased most of my gear) for service last year and they gave me a piece of junk loaner. Some brand I had not seen before. I decided not to dive that weekend because I didn't think I risk my life with that crap in my mouth.
Sure you can try different stuff before purchasing one. But you have to PAY to rent them. As far as getting advice goes, let me just tell you that I'd rather call Miss Cleo's psychic hotline...
My next purchase will be from an online store, or maybe I'll come up to Toronto....:doctor: