The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[redacted]

trymixdiver once bubbled...
Awap

So if they keep a bata base and they know where stuff is going, why dont they not sell to the people who ship to LP, DiveINN, ect.... If there is a datbase that shows where stuff goes then they know who bought it.

Andy

Diveinn is, in fact, an authorized dealer for what it sells. But the distributer supplying Diveinn is not the US distributer, but a European distributer. In the case of Scubapro, it's not the manufacturer dealing directly with our LDS, but rather the distributer - Scubapro USA. They are the ones doing the price fixing and pulling the strings on our LDSs. Other distributers, like Scubapro Spain, either will not or legally can not fix prices or contol retail sale like their USA counterpart.

I believe Leisurepro is getting its stock from European or Mid-eastern distributors. Ever notice how manuals with LP gear are multi-lingual unlike the USA distributed gear. Anyway, it is a similiar situation as Diveinn. Scubapro USA can't control the foreign distributer. And I suspect that the law in the foreign countries where there gear is aquired restricts the distributer from controlling subsequent sales by the retailer. So they probably can track that grey market gear right back to the retailer and the distributer, but the foreign consumer protection legislation prevents them from doing much about it without penalty to the mfgrs operation in that country. I believe we have similiar laws in the US but they have long been ignored in the case of the scuba retail industry in the US.

Much of this is my conjecture rather than clear fact. I'm willing to listen to other theories but havn't heard any that make much sense so far. I don't believe for a minute that leisurepro is buying their gear from US LDSs as they go under. Some countries actually have and enforce laws that say you can't refuse to sell to MIKE because of who he retails to or how cheaply he will sell it.

 

[redacted]

His selection is small and he is not a dealer for the regs I have. He doesn't offer much in travel - I asked. So I get air and tank services from him as well as incidentals. I've even told him he doesn't charge enough for air but he ignores me. The weak relationship seems to be working for both of us

 

[trymixdiver]

It would appear i was not looking at the entire picture. The problem is more complicated than i thought.

Damn, i thought i was on a roll solveing the worlds problems. How stupid of me to think it was that simple.

:bonk: :banging: :stupid:

YDNA

 

[The Chairman]

when you know that you may be the thing keeping his shop afloat this month. I do buy somethings online, but far more rarely. I would hate to lose my $2.50 air fills and my $5.00 NitrOx fills because I cheaped out on the bigger stuff. The more generous you are with your LDS the more they seem to be generous with you. We need the little guys, and I would just as soon buy my stuff at a slower rate than to lose them.

 

[Flytyer]

Sent a nice not nasty gram to scuba pro today. They have phone number and address on their site. I suggest everyone should drop them a note. I also emailed LP to ask about a good point brought up in this thread. Just how do they get their stuff? Is it factory repaired, or returned, or blemished merchandise? This exact thing goes on in the camera industry. But usually that merchandise is factory returns and repairs.

Ill keep you up to date. I am in no way picking on LP. I have no dive equipment at all. (as of yet at least). I just picked them because you all have mentioned them numerous times.

-Flytyer

 

[cstreu1026]

Say someone is in the military serving our country and stationed in lets say Europe. He/she just happens to pop into Diveinn's shop and picks up some gear. When that person returns to the states ther warranty goes in the garbage or what? That is a pretty raw deal if that is the case? I would sure hope there would be some leeway with the mfg. in cases like that. After all that person bought their equipment while they were abroad protecting the rights of us here to be gauged on a regular basis by our LDS as mandated by the corporations that supply the gear. Of course in reality that person was really only protecting the interests of a few, but this is neither the time or place to talk about that.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

awap,

So is Scubapro USA a subsidiary of Scubapro the company or are they just someone who happens to be the guy that imports all the scubapro equipment for distribution in America?

Are they also the ones that is responsible, decision and costwise, of marketing, advertising, warranty work and maybe recalls?

I do not see distributors that brings in multiple brands of products into the US, are there any?

 

[Arnaud]

Anyone on the board from Europe who has the text of their warranty from the manufacturer?

Say you bought a reg in your home country from an authorized dealer and try to get it repaired while vacationing in the US. I'm pretty sure that the manufacturer gives a worldwide warranty. If the warranty were void when you travel, there would be something screwy, especially since divers are usually big time travelers.

I live in the States but I'm about to buy a MK25/S600 in France (where I'm from). It sells for $377 over there... So, I am really interested in your answers.

 

[DiverBuoy]

Took a couple of days off virtual diving to do the real thing. Wow this topic sure has evoked a lot of reaction. It seems there are several threads of dilemma.

1. Consumers (majority of posters on this thread) want best price at all cost. They are convinced that the LDS will eventually have to give in to the pricing that Internet only dive shops (IDS) have.

2. Manufacturers are almost solely to blame. No question running brick and morter involves greater overhead - which doesn't hinder a pure IDS.

3. There seem to be double standards for Manufacturers and it sure seems to me that we've identified some clearly illegal activities, and the LDS is caught in the middle.

4. A number of comments indicate that you all have some really crappy LDS in your areas. I guess I've been spoiled. Regular sale prices are often 25-35% off of numerous items throughout the year. Of course you have to purchase when it comes up. And you have to exercise patience - something "Just in time" economics and "have it now" consumers won't be happy with.

5. The ever present conclusion that change is inevitable. metridium pointed this out twice. There is no doubt about it, things are changing right now. The future will involve more change. Case in point:

About Scuba Pro - a local rep has been going to all the shops in the town and talking about a deal that Scuba Pro is offering now likely on an annual basis. I know this won't make non-professional divers happy but apparently your professional friends can help you out. The deal is 40% off wholesale - no questions asked. You just can't get so many of a specific item. The idea being that you can't turn around and post an E-bay auction. When dive pros do this deal they end up in quality scuba pro stuff, the LDS gets a share because all purchases go through their shop - which boosts their numbers. So it behooves the shop to get a really large tupperdive party together and place a really big order. I asked outright if I could buy things for non-pro divers. The answer was you can buy anything you want for yourself, what you do with it after that is up to you. The discussion came up that Scuba Pro has been hurting competitively with Mfgs that have turned their attention to really pushing high volume product through Internet vehicles. So it looks like this tupperdive party will become an annual event.

I just believe in spreading it around - find a good shop and support them and your on-line habit at the same time. When you introduce scuba to new folks direct them to the best place for them to start - the LDS. OW certs will spend their dollars to get started and establish a personal relationship that can grow. Later they too can spread some money to the Internet. All of us work hard for our money - we deserve a good deal. We also deserve convenience (air fills, reasonable servicing, and ready access).

However, nothing in this thread has convinced me that we will have our air and breath it cheaply too (well you get the point).

 

[MikeFerrara]

Welshman once bubbled...
Mike

Where do the likes of LP get their equipment. The manufacturer has to have sold it to someone. this may be a dumb question but I'd be interested to knoe.

Regards

I don't know the answer to that. Some manufacturers allow online sales and may not require a dealer to be a full service shop so they may actually be dealers for those. For other manufacturers they can't possibly be dealers and I would love to know where they get it. The may be buying some lds overstock for pennies on the dollar or maybe some manufacturers are doing some backdoor business.