The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

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Why stop at the scuba industry? Think a 100% mark-up by the end seller (MSRP for the LDS) is bad? Care to guess what a draft beer or fountain soda cost the average seller compared to what they sell it to you for? Don't drink beer or soda? Then how about that $1.25 bottle water you drank today which can cost you in excess of 10 bucks a gallon.

I don't want to belabor the point here but most of you pay more each year in mark-ups of things you never think about, then you will ever pay to an LDS in a year you make major equipment purchases. In general, scuba industry mark-ups can be meager when compared to items you buy everyday. End user mark-ups in the 500 to 1000% range are not uncommon for many products.

Now that i have your attention and probably have you pissed at me, why do you think some things are marked up that high? It's called overhead and few people who don't work in the industry who produce the product truely understand what it costs to develop, manufacture and distribute the product. Heck, most people working in any given industry don't understand all the costs.

This is not intended to defend any LDS or manufacturer in the scuba industry, just the facts as i see them. I'm like the rest of you who wants to pay as little for the products i'm purchasing as possible and be serviced well because i am patronizing that vendor. The fact remains i will never truely understand that vendors costs, because it is not the business i am in. IMHO, it is arrogant, although fully within one rights in this country, to deem a mark-up to high, without understanding the costs of the item.

I know this from experience, owning a company which is not related to the scuba industry. Trying to explain the reasons and costs, related to our mark-ups for our customers, can at times be a real exercise in futility. Few will ever appreciate what it takes to run my business until they have to pay the bills related to running it. That's just the way it is. The customer is always right, UNTIL, they ask you to do something that runs your company out of business. The solution to that "business model", should be self-evident. Otherwise, don't try to start a business.

For my part i try to patronize local LDS's as much as possible. If i feel they are not treating me fair, i move on to other options. That is sometimes a hard decision to arrive at but i almost always give the LDS a chance on products they sell. Trying to support your LDS is only good for your own regional dive industry. I believe anyone who thinks they will be better off with no LDS is deluding themselves. In the same breathe, any LDS who doesn't realize the internet has changed the industry and they must start providing more and better service, is destine to failure.

Sorry if i ranted this is a well traveled topic in my experiences.:bonk:
 
DiverBuoy wrote...
2. Buy smart - look for discounts, sale prices, trade-ins, and other deals. Pit one shop vs. another. Switch LDS's if you're online. Buy from these websites - NOT PURE ON-LINE SHOPS with no brick-and-mortar component. I am not saying "Don't buy online" I never said that from the start (please re-read).
How about answering the question of what "PURE ON-LINE SHOPS" you're talking about? Even Leisure Pro has a physical storefront...

Hmmm....not a peep from DiverBuoy since raviepoo called him on this anti-LP rant.

DiverBuoy wrote...
5. Hope this isn't news to anyone - LDSs don't even break on compressor cost of ownership and maintenance - by charging you for filling your tanks. And most shops give this type of thing because they can make it up in equipment sales.
That makes an excellent case for rational pricing of training and fills on the LDS' part, not for avoiding internet purchases on my part.

DiverBuoy wrote...
Several of you defend - there will always be a place to fill. That is shops will stay open even if the only money you or any other diver spends at the LDS is for maintenance, training and fills - this is ludicrous.
And why is that? If it can be done profitably, it will. The LDS just won't be the same as the current model.
 
trymixdiver once bubbled...
answer me this though:

how do you know its a grey market item ! Without asking me where i got it, there is no way to tell where i got it. or am i wrong?


This was a few years ago and I started a lively conversation by asking him how he managed to compete with Leisurepro. In the discussion that followed, he told me that at least one of his mfgrs provided an online resource where he could check the origin of a regulator based on serial number. Then he charged more if it was not an authorized purchase.

As an aside, some manufacturers/LDS's consider any foreign purchase to be grey market. While Diveinn may be a Scubapro Spain authorized dealer, they are not a Scubapro USA authorized dealer. Hence the warranty conflict.
 
someone I'm not picking on wrote...
I do believe in profit - no business can survive with out it. Also, they certainly should make more than an online outfit since they do provide service and have real overhead...
That's a bit of a misconception where most online shops are concerned (certainly all mentioned in this thread, with the exception of LP). They have the same overhead as other LDS for the storefront sales, training, and fills they do, PLUS extra overhead on their internet sales departments and warehouses. It's just spread over greater unit sales.
 
There is a great and ONLY shop in town with a great guy. Unfortunately i dont own a golden goose that lays golden eggs or coin and i dont lay eggs either.

How do i buy my equipment online and still be able to afford to dive regulary with the local shop people ??
 
nk5 once bubbled...
Hey, Ontario Diver! Put me in touch with the Canadian Immigration people. Most of the stuff you said about your LDS do not exist where I live. I took my reg to my LDS (where I had purchased most of my gear) for service last year and they gave me a piece of junk loaner. Some brand I had not seen before. I decided not to dive that weekend because I didn't think I risk my life with that crap in my mouth.
Sure you can try different stuff before purchasing one. But you have to PAY to rent them. As far as getting advice goes, let me just tell you that I'd rather call Miss Cleo's psychic hotline...
My next purchase will be from an online store, or maybe I'll come up to Toronto....:doctor:

Anytime, my friend. In fact the store where I bought my reg would not let me "buy" it until I had tried in out on at least one dive to 100' - not bad eh!
 
I buy equipment where I find the best deal. Diver's Unlimited in Key Largo, when I'm there, or my LDS, or another LDS, or online if it will work. I don't tell them where I buy my groceries, why would I tell them where I buy my equipment. It's none of their business.
 
If it's the only dive shop in town you might be out of luck. If you only buy online it could create some resentment but as long as you still buy stuff from your local guy, he should understand. I bought my computer from a shop in singapore because my lds shp was selling it for literally 3 times as much. I kind of felt bad when I showed up wearing it but come on! If he's not even close to competing, I'd say go for it but be diplomatic.
 
Variants of this subject have been addressed all over the place. Here's my take.

I'm in the eCommerce business. Knowing where to get the buys, how to find the deals, how to pay less, etc. I travel all over the country on business, I have stuff shipped to other offices to avoid tax and save on freight, etc. I belong to industry associations and attend trade shows and meetings to secure dealer pricing on stuff, etc. Its what I do. Buying anything at retail makes me cringe now.

It used to miff my LDS when I'd roll in with new gear (BC, Fins, DrySuit, Mask...whatever). We finally had to have "the talk." I really wanted a relationship with these people, and if things kept going like they were (him vibing me) I was going to cut it off.

I'm not rich, but I'm deeply committed to the sport and to ongoing training - and that makes me a whale compared to the zillions of OW's this guy will certify that will never come back. Vibe me, lose my long term dollars. Treat me with respect, I'll be loyal.

The talk was great.

I book my local trips through this guy. I'm now in the dive club out of his shop - and I've met so many cool people. All my training (and my wife's) go through there - AOW, ANDI EAN, etc. Heck, I even took a Drysuit class through this guy after buying the suit on line. All of my on-line purchases I run through the guy for a check out. My annual services go through his shop, too. My tanks get vis'd and hydro'ed there. All my gear got O2 cleaned there.

lets see: I get my fills there, my training, all of my local trips there, my club there, I'm involved, active, etc. I even buy the small stuff there (gloves, slates, weights, etc.) and all my annual services.

The ONLY thing I don't do through this guy are the rare 3 and 4 digit gear purchases. He gets a lot more out of me (dollar wise) than I ultimately spend online anyway. How many drysuits will I buy over the next 10 years? How many BC's? I'll spend 5 times those big purchases in his shop over the next 10 years.

My guy really responded to "the talk" in that we found out we both have the same objectives - a long term relationship. It was sort of bumpy at first, but we have found a groove together and I respect this place, and they respect me.

Be honest, be up-front. If the guy is a savvy businessman, he'll get it. If not, you may need to move on.

My $.02

kk
 
Awap

you said

"In the discussion that followed, he told me that at least one of his mfgrs provided an online resource where he could check the origin of a regulator based on serial number"

So if they keep a bata base and they know where stuff is going, why dont they not sell to the people who ship to LP, DiveINN, ect.... If there is a datbase that shows where stuff goes then they know who bought it.

If they can tract a Serial # to its orgin then they know who paid for it. That serial # is listed as being sold to say MIKE. Why dont they then tell mike they wont sell to him anymore.

Sorry i dont by that LDS story. It doesnt add up.

Andy
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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