TDI or GUE or UTD

[rjack321]

Ouch, that's an expensive renewal. Do you happen to know the reason for the lapse--did he not have the requisite number of qualifying dives within the 3.5 years allowed, or was it just a matter of failing to send in the paperwork?

In his case, lack of tech diving in general and to some extent lack of being active as an instructor and in the agency.

While everyone likes to try and point to some hard "rule" on renewals the reality is that for both divers and instructors its fairly flexible if you are meeting the intent of the renewal expectations.

Tech1 and Cave1 are both fairly easy certs to remain current on. Tech2 and to a lessor extent Cave2 is dang tough to get the dives in depending on where you live and seasonal issues.

 

[lamont]

the minimum of 25 dives in 3 years at the cert level is hardly enough to maintain skills unless you do lots of other diving too at the same time.

The thing is that the person in question was at one point a very good diver (he pretty much brought GUE-training to the PNW) but hadn't been actively diving at all (even tech diving up here). But, after a couple weeks of shakedown diving he regained it all, and it didn't take a GUE instructor to re-teach him anything. He clearly didn't one day wake up and decide to go dive Eagle's Nest, even though he's certified to do that, but why not let the diver choose how they progressively get back into cave/tech diving? Theoretically, the card means that they're *trained*, so they should know how to make a good decision there.

For instructors, the renewals make a lot more sense, since procedures change, and you definitely don't want an instructor coming back after 3 years off and then teaching students...

 

[Rainer]

As rjack noted, they don't have to be trimix dives (though I did get 25 of those in this year), just dives at that cert level (he gave the appropriate examples for T1).

In any case, I directly asked JJ about this issue at one point (renewing a lapsed card) and he told me one simply had to schedule some evaluation dives with an instructor to get the card renewed. If I can't manage to average 8 dives per year at my highest level, I have no problem doing a few checkout dives (on my dime).

I'm not sure they have to be trimix dives.

Send a PM to Rainer. I think he's intending to count long dives (50-60 at 100') on 32% with Oxygen deco towards his renewal.

 

[StreetDoctor]

I will care what it says as even if my team and I feel comfortable with the skills, I cannot do those dives as I will not be able to obtain the trimix fills.

That's interesting, I think you have a rather large GUE group in Ontario (not too sure how far they are from you though) and even a few new GUE instructors. They must get there fills from somewhere? Did you try checking out the GUE forum ? As others have said 8 dives a year... If you can't do that you should really reconsider if it's worth even taking the course.

 

[elan]

That's interesting, I think you have a rather large GUE group in Ontario (not too sure how far they are from you though) and even a few new GUE instructors. They must get there fills from somewhere? Did you try checking out the GUE forum ? As others have said 8 dives a year... If you can't do that you should really reconsider if it's worth even taking the course.

The fills comment was related to the case when the card is expired. If the longer deco dives on 32 are counted that should not be a problem. Otherwise 8 trimix deep dives is not really that small amount. With the 6-7 month window suitable for that kind of dives it's basically 1-1.5 dives a month. Give n one might have some issues , family, health etc. during the best months that can even be more.

But there is another thing does not like about this system. Instead of concentrating on the progression at the pace that the person feels safe one has to be under peer pressure of clocking the dives not to lose the certification. Kind of reminds me of a rat race... or of those who clock the dives surfacing every 20 minutes so they can pass DM requirement.

 

[Rainer]

Instead of concentrating on the progression at the pace that the person feels safe

That's right. When you sign up for a GUE class, you have to accept that you'll do enough dives at the pace *GUE* feels makes you a safe diver, not just your own personal whim. If 25 dives in three years seems too great a "burden" then (1) GUE training isn't for you (there's nothing wrong with that), and (2) you really do have to question why you're getting trimix certified (it's a fair amount of work and money if you'd be doing less than eight such dives per year).

In any case, as I already mentioned, you can renew with some checkout dives (assuming your skills haven't deteriorated).

 

[elan]

That's right. When you sign up for a GUE class, you have to accept that you'll do enough dives at the pace *GUE* feels makes you a safe diver, not just your own personal whim. If 25 dives in three years seems too great a "burden" then (1) GUE training isn't for you (there's nothing wrong with that)

No there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm slowly coming to the very same conclusion... that it's probably not for me.

 

[TSandM]

Oh, I don't agree with that at all. I have a UTD T1 cert, and as far as I know, it doesn't expire. But if I can't manage 25 T1 dives in THREE YEARS, I don't think my memory of the skills I learned will be sharp, and I would be happy to go do a day of refreshing with my UTD instructor. Same with cave dives. Yes, it may put some pressure on you to go and get the dives done, but if you don't have those dives to do, why did you take the class in the first place?

 

[M_Bipartitus]

It isn't a requirement, but UTD recommends at least 2 annual reviews each year with an Instructor. The website says it's online academics and an in-water review. I would be curious to hear how many UTD divers actually do this.

 

[elan]

Yes, it may put some pressure on you to go and get the dives done, but if you don't have those dives to do, why did you take the class in the first place?

This question is open for a discussion.
Example #1. some one doing their T1 cert and being excited does 30 dives in a row, dumps some real money and fulfills his obligation, next year he got sick, a year after this he has a baby and the suit was wet only few times in the local quarry during the last year. In winter he is sitting on the coach and drinking beer as he has no business freezing his ass in that 36f water. However when the renewal comes he is handed over the renewal card.

Example #2. Someone does diving every week in the local lake, does rec charters works on skills, including those of T1. Every second month he with a group of others gets a weekend of and dives a nice shipwreck laying on the bottom with 180' depth. So over the course of 3 years he gets may be 10-15 good Trimix dives. His gear never dries in the winter and he has logged 10 ice dives on top of that.
But at the end of year 3 he hear sorry man you did not meet the obligations.

Those are probably extremes but quite realistic.

Now whom of those 2 would you would make your 160' dive with at the end of year 3?