TDI or GUE or UTD

[elan]

Now I have a question for you guys. I'm not trying to spark another agency bashing thread but just trying to understand which path to take.

I'm want to get into more technical diving next year, mostly for the reason of having longer rather than deeper for now dives. With many wrecks laying around 100 - 120 ft and up it's sometimes to disappointing to start coming up when the fun has just started

But eventually wreck penetration and caves are on the list as well. I'm currently looking at these 3 agencies. We have more TDI presence here, GUE is available in Kingston, ON in NY UTD seems to be available in Detroit area. So both GUE and UTD will require traveling.

I have different buddies, some are with GUE background, some are with TDI. So I'm kinda lost. Could you give me some pros/cons of all of them or some reference points that could be used to help me to decide.

P.S. I'm aware of the it's instructor not the agency thingy but still

Thanks a lot

 

[TSandM]

I know it isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's still to a bit the instructor.

My experience has been that GUE instructors have the highest expectations and are the most critical of details. There are times when I'm of two minds whether that's optimal.

I like the UTD divisions of training, breaking things up into smaller, more manageable chunks. I also think Andrew has a great, inclusive vision, and wants to keep the agency focused on the fact that people do this for FUN -- even while they are training divers to a high level of skill. I think the cave branch of the agency needs some work, and if cave is what you are primarily interested in, I think GUE has it hands down.

I think there are some TDI instructors who are probably world-class -- I'd take a class from Steve Lewis in a heartbeat. But my TDI Cave class simply wasn't in the same league as either the GUE classes I've taken, or the NACD class I just finished.

 

[liuk3]

It's definitely a very subjective subject. I have my own favorite.

What I might suggest is speaking with your local instructors and check out the chemistry and teaching styles to see which meshes best with you. The other thing I would do is talk to your various buddies. One of the things I realize is if I do all my training with ABC agency and try to buddy with XYZ agency trained buddies, sometimes the different dive philosophies do not mesh well when doing technical depth dives. It seems like you likely have a pretty big TDI and GUE dive community local enough to just get different thoughts from your local divers and future tech dive buddies. Good luck with it!

 

[wedivebc]

I like the UTD divisions of training, breaking things up into smaller, more manageable chunks.

read more c-cards that you must pay for. I am getting concerned about the UTD emails I have been getting lately as they are strangely reminiscent of the PADI "announcements" I get with alarming frequency. Sorry but UTD seems to be all about the money lately.

 

[elan]

Thanks guys, is it possible to come from one agency to another say if one takes UTD equivalent of Fundies ca I do Cave 1 with GUE later ? I think the answer would probably be no with TDI vs. the other 2 ?

The shop I go to often can teach TDI but I'm not a big fun of the way they do it as everything seems to be done in a rush. I'm more leaning towards GUE and now planing to do their Fundamentals later in the spring.

Some people with GUE training here are exceptionally nice and are very urgent to help you in all the details (just ask) including the gear setup and techniques. Some are exactly the opposite but of cause that has nothing to do with the agency. So I'm trying to cut the **** and try to look to the roots. I do not know any folks who has UTD training though to talk to them directly about their experience. I have found that UTD looks less "snobbish", I would say but lack of enough trainees in the area does not let me talk and dive with many people.

 

[elan]

TDI seems to give the deco entry ticket cheaper and faster with Adv N/Deco but it's not the key point for me now. I can wait for Fundies and Tech1 or UTD equiv as my skills are far from beint perfect. Especially with deco bottles handling.

This was one of my concerns about my local shop giving TDI training. When my friend was getting the training they seemed to be little concerned about deco/stage bottle handling procedures and it was a kind of assumed that you can do the bottle switches perfectly even when you have 1 AL80 and 1 AL40. We have been diving with single Al 80 stages for last few months and for me it does not seem to be easy. yeah it's easy when everything goes well and it's nice and shiny. But in more complicated scenarios and task loading, especially when you are doing this in 3 ft vis and you cannot see anything, and the water temperature is in mid 40, that can pose significant risk. So I was wondering if this is only this TDI instructor who has those assumptions or it's just the general approach of TDI and those instructors who feel it's critical enforce that and those who does not feel the same way they skip it.

 

[liuk3]

I believe that it is much easier to go from GUE to the other agencies. I do not believe the converse is true in that GUE doesn't really accept the accredations from others. If you know for a fact you want to do GUE cave training or tech training, for instance, then you should start with the GUE Fundamentals class. I was very fortunate in that the local GUE people I had met were extremely generous with their time and equipment with me. Also, I liked the idea that if I decided not to continue with GUE, it seemed like the skill sets in Fundamentals could be easily applied to training with other technical dive agencies.

I also noticed that you are from Ontario. I had the privilege of meeting some really cool divers from Ontario during their GUE Tech 1 class. They were incredibly nice people; and from what they described to me, it seemed like there is a pretty supportive community up there. I know that they seem to have people at all levels to dive with. Also, you might want to check out Ontario Diving as another source for more data points as you do your research.

I went through the same evaluation of the three agencies before ultimately choosing which one to proceed with. I gotta say that at one point or another I probably thought I could train with any of the three. The thing that really helped me make my decision was the flexibility in terms of the training moving forward and which community of divers I felt most comfortable. While I've been very happy with my training, I'm sure that you can find great instructors with any of them, and I would definitely urge you to just pick up the phone or exchange emails with them to see how you feel about the local instructors.

 

[TSandM]

I will say, and I think Rick Inman (who did Fundies with me) would agree, that taking Fundies is the perfect foundation for ANY other technical or cave training you might do. Having your fundamental skills polished to the Fundies tech pass level will satisfy your GUE or UTD instructor, and likely amaze your TDI instructor, who is much more accustomed to accepting students where he has to start from scratch.

 

[elan]

Alright it seems to be a good idea to take the Fundamentals class no matter what path I select in the future.

Looks like there is nothing taught in this class that is useless for the further tech diving.

 

[Rick Inman]

I will say, and I think Rick Inman (who did Fundies with me) would agree, that taking Fundies is the perfect foundation for ANY other technical or cave training you might do.

Absolutely agree. Fundies was the best thing I did pre-tech. My IANTD instructor said it was the best thing I did, and he adopted many GUE protocols into my classes. Even today, now that I dive eCCR, and even though an electronic rebreather is the antithesis of DIR, I apply much of the GUE protocols and foundational principals to my diving.