tank inspections & fill pre 1989 AL tanks

[mderrick]

Here is our shop's current policy on filling 6351 cylinders

http://www.fillexpress.com/library/al6351.shtml

 

[Scared Silly]

Very nice, well thoughout and reasoned. Kudos.

 

[Gil57usa]

As long as the tank passes hydro and visual inspection, there is no reason not to fill it. The DOT regulates Hydro intervals. The decision to fill or not is strictly Dive Shop.

 

[roakey]

Too bad, another dive shop putting in writing that the "self regulating" SCUBA industry is failing miserably in the self regulation department... What this says, pure and simple is that Fill Express does not trust other dive shops to inspect cylinders correctly. Fill express, like many other shops, has chosen the easy route instead of the correct route. Rather than applying peer pressure (the "self regulation" that the industry wants to keep, well, at least supposedly) against the shops that do poor inspections, they choose not to step on their fellow shop keeper's toes and instead pass their collective failure onto their customers.

Good woork.... NOT!

Roak

 

[in_cavediver]

Too bad, another dive shop putting in writing that the "self regulating" SCUBA industry is failing miserably in the self regulation department... What this says, pure and simple is that Fill Express does not trust other dive shops to inspect cylinders correctly. Fill express, like many other shops, has chosen the easy route instead of the correct route. Rather than applying peer pressure (the "self regulation" that the industry wants to keep, well, at least supposedly) against the shops that do poor inspections, they choose not to step on their fellow shop keeper's toes and instead pass their collective failure onto their customers.

Good woork.... NOT!

Roak

I disagree and don't fault them at all. This is a potential safety issue for their employees. Simply put, we know the 6351 alloy has potential for SLC. The question is whether the VIP sticker is worth anything in describing the testing/evalution of these tanks. I agree with them, its not worth much. (and I do my own visuals). Until there is a uniform and enforced standard for inspection, this will always be the case. You do notice this is true only for the 6351 tanks, not the steels or 6061's. They do honor those VIPS.

 

[jpsexton]

I agree with roakey. Either the sticker means the visual + was done correctly or not! If the sticker is that worthless between shops then require the visuals to be done by the hydro facilities only!

 

[roakey]

I disagree and don't fault them at all. This is a potential safety issue for their employees.

You may want to reread what both you and I said, because it turns out, given what you wrote, that you completely agree with me!

Simply put, we know the 6351 alloy has potential for SLC.

Yes it does, but it can be caught early with a good inspection. No argument here...

The question is whether the VIP sticker is worth anything in describing the testing/evalution of these tanks. I agree with them, its not worth much.

You and I and Fill Express totally agree, it's not worth much (that's because there are so many shops that don't do a very good job at visuals).

Until there is a uniform and enforced standard for inspection, this will always be the case.

And this is the path we're going down -- standardized, government controlled inspections. But this is EXACTLY what the industry wanted to avoid -- that's why they took great pride with being "self regulating". But when it came to the hard part of "self regulation" -- good shops going after sloppy shops -- it didn't happen. To be self regulating you need to go after the bad guys, and this is exactly what DIDN'T happen industry-wide. So, rather than sucking it up and doing what they SHOULD do (go after the bad shops) they pass their failures onto you, the customer.

Note I'm not surprised about what they're doing, but the reason they're forced into doing it is because what they DIDN'T do. And what they didn't do was very, very wrong, and that was failing to step up to the plate and self regulate when they needed to.

Roak

 

[deepstops]

Too bad, another dive shop putting in writing that the "self regulating" SCUBA industry is failing miserably in the self regulation department... What this says, pure and simple is that Fill Express does not trust other dive shops to inspect cylinders correctly. Fill express, like many other shops, has chosen the easy route instead of the correct route. Rather than applying peer pressure (the "self regulation" that the industry wants to keep, well, at least supposedly) against the shops that do poor inspections, they choose not to step on their fellow shop keeper's toes and instead pass their collective failure onto their customers.

Good woork.... NOT!

Roak

6351 tanks need to just go away. People die when these things explode. These tanks were probably under $100 when new and they're 18+ years old now. I think everyone got their money's worth from them. :shakehead

FE is my LDS and there's a few failed 6351s in there everytime I'm there. Besides, what you intimated isn't what their policy states (note the part in bold beginning with the word "or"). This conforms with the new DOT recommendations:

Will Fill Express fill my aluminum 6351-T6 alloy SCUBA cylinder?

Fill Express will fill an aluminum 6351-T6 alloy SCUBA cylinder if Fill Express has performed the annual visual inspection on the cylinder including an eddy current exam or if it has been hydrostaticly tested after January 1st 2007, AND you can provide documentation that the DOT testing facility also performed a combined visual and eddy current examination to PSI standards. However, Fill Express does not recommend renewing the visual inspection or hydro-static test for aluminum 6351-T6 alloy SCUBA cylinders because of issues associated with sustained load cracking (SLC) in those cylinders. We recommend that aluminum 6351-T6 SCUBA cylinders be removed from service.

It's not FE's role to make sure every other dive shop does Visual+ correctly. It's their role to ensure FillExpress does them correctly.

 

[DiveSite]

How does a "good" shop "go after" a "bad" shop? What is the definition of a good and bad shop and who creates the definition?

 

[scubaphil562]

its actually a federal issue. but since there are no scuba police it comes down to the various inspection organizations. PSI is who i am an inspector with. i currently work for sport chalet here on the west coast. big company, lots of clout. anyway, there is us code that dictates what is safe and not safe but it is not always passed along so freely. the information that is.


as it stands my compnay will deny filling or inspection of any tank manufactured prior to 5 of 1988. or with an alloy rating of "6498" in any combination even if marked "3al" thos old tanks are cool and fun and still old. if you take great care of them 1 in 10000 will fail. or you can just buy a new tank..