Did I get Screwed by Diveshop Hydro, who never inspected the tank?

[SlugLife]

The short story is I brought in a used 1988 tank for Hydro at a Scuba-shop. Normally I go to a fire-safety place, but I was in a rush. At the time I bought it about a year ago, I checked this thread and believed it to be the good aluminum. The VIP tech called me, and said they wouldn't hydro it because it was older than 1990, but otherwise never inspected the tank. Rather than argue, I said I'd just pick up the tank. (My intent was to take it to the fire-safety place) However, when I arrived at the dive-shop, they refused to just hand me the tank, and instead DEMANDED I sign a document stating the tank was bad, and that the tank either had to receive a stamp condemning the tank, or be scrapped. I unfortunately don't have the tank or pictures, otherwise I'd ask people double-check my work.

Just to give them some benefit of the doubt, lets pretend the tank was AL6351. Is condemning a AL6351 tank without inspection normal? Is signing documents about condemned tanks normal? Did I get screwed?

Anyway, aside from them condemning a tank, which they never actually inspected, and which believed is good (perhaps correctly or not), I'm super pissed that the dive-shop essentially forced/coerced me into signing a document, even if I didn't take the tank home. I did argue, specifically that they never hydro'd the tank, and the metal but they were not listening AT ALL. I was stuck, because they also had two of my other scuba-tanks, and it's one of the very few available fill-shops around, and I had a dive-buddy waiting at the docks. I'm kinda pissed at myself, because I never sign under such circumstances normally, but hindsight is perhaps 20-20. I left the tank with them because it's effectively scrap metal, and I don't really have the space for that at this time. They didn't charge for the hydro. I stopped buying tanks that old a while ago, but still had that one around.

Anyway, $40 I spent on the tank sucks, but isn't the end of the world. Customer service was a bad experience. But I'd like to know if the Dive-shop actually screwed me? The next dive-shop adds 15-20 minutes to my total-drive, but may be worth it if I did get screwed.

 

[grf88]

Anyway, $40 I spent on the tank sucks, but isn't the end of the world. Customer service was a bad experience. But I'd like to know if the Dive-shop actually screwed me? The next dive-shop adds 15-20 minutes to my total-drive, but may be worth it if I did get screwed.

I believe they did and you were. There are certain tanks with expired Special Permits that should be removed from service but those were made long before 1988. Old alloy does not condemn a tank but does require additional testing and some pre 1990 tanks are made of the less crack prone alloy.
I think I would return to the shop and talk with the owner suggesting that they can make it good with say 10 free fills.

 

[grf88]

Is the shop an actual hydro testing facility or do they send out the tanks. If not an actual hydro testing facility they have no authority to condemn a tank. This is maybe why they requested your signature.

 

[rhwestfall]

They performed no hydro test, so only a "visual". With that, they can only condemn with consent. Results of a failed hydro allow the tester to condemn (even if they did it wrong) without any consent.

It appears the shop is completely in the wrong here from the information you provided.

 

[rhwestfall]

Keep in mind, it is their compressor, and their rules. They can deny a fill for any reason they can make up. Destroying property, however, is a whole different issue.

 

[SlugLife]

I believe they did and you were. There are certain tanks with expired Special Permits that should be removed from service but those were made long before 1988. Old alloy does not condemn a tank but does require additional testing and some pre 1990 tanks are made of the less crack prone alloy.
I think I would return to the shop and talk with the owner suggesting that they can make it good with say 10 free fills.

That is my understanding. Tanks with the old aluminum are less reliable, and some places may refuse to fill, VIP, or Hydro, but aren't inherently dangerous or automatically condemned.

Is the shop an actual hydro testing facility or do they send out the tanks. If not an actual hydro testing facility they have no authority to condemn a tank. This is maybe why they requested your signature.

I believe the dive-shop has their own VIP technician, but sends the tanks elsewhere for Hydro. Previously, I've done Hydro at a fire-extinguisher place, which was much cheaper ($20 to $25 I think). This time I was just lazy, already at the dive-shop and figured I'd pay extra for convivence. Not to get off-topic, but this dive-shop also charged me $25 for VIP on some other tanks; I mistakenly assumed their price was $20, which is what other dive-shops in the area charge.

If they don't have the authority to condemn the tank without my signature; that seems even worse. They effectively bullied me into signing.

 

[SlugLife]

They performed no hydro test, so only a "visual". With that, they can only condemn with consent. Results of a failed hydro allow the tester to condemn (even if they did it wrong) without any consent.

It appears the shop is completely in the wrong here from the information you provided.

To be precise, the Dive-Shop visually inspected the date-stamp, but didn't do a VIP inspection or discover any damage or weakness in the tank.

To be completely fair to the dive-shop, I'm trying to keep open the door on there being some crucial detail I've left out. You know, the typical "only one side of the story" problem. That's why for purposes of discussion, I'm leaving open the idea that maybe I didn't properly check whether the tank had the new-or-old aluminum.

I do understand the idea of it being condemned, if it actually failed hydro. Without touching much on the politics, there's at least an sensible argument about removing known unsafe tanks from the market.

Keep in mind, it is their compressor, and their rules. They can deny a fill for any reason they can make up. Destroying property, however, is a whole different issue.

Absolutely! There are legitimate safety hazards of 3000+ psi, and it's their property, and their worker-safety. Now, as a potential-customer, I have the same freedom to take my business elsewhere for any reason.

Based on my phone-call with their tech, I had merely assumed they were either refusing to hydro, or didn't think it was worth doing hydro, which I had zero problem with. However, the fact that they condemned the tank was a pretty big shock. Then forcefully demanding my signature and effectivley bullying it is what pisses me off more than losing the tank.

 

[Boarderguy]

These are my two "voodoo" aluminum tanks. You'll get a VE stamp after hydro to show everyone that the tank passed hydro AND Eddy-current testing. The eddy proves that at the time of testing there are no cracks or blemishes in the tank that would likely cause a failure. Visual $15 more per year and they can only be filled by people willing to understand they passed all testing... that said, the shop is wrong and is likely screwing you unless it is the condemned metal (6431?).

 

[grantctobin]

To be precise, the Dive-Shop visually inspected the date-stamp, but didn't do a VIP inspection or discover any damage or weakness in the tank.

To be completely fair to the dive-shop, I'm trying to keep open the door on there being some crucial detail I've left out. You know, the typical "only one side of the story" problem. That's why for purposes of discussion, I'm leaving open the idea that maybe I didn't properly check whether the tank had the new-or-old aluminum.

I do understand the idea of it being condemned, if it actually failed hydro. Without touching much on the politics, there's at least an sensible argument about removing known unsafe tanks from the market.


Absolutely! There are legitimate safety hazards of 3000+ psi, and it's their property, and their worker-safety. Now, as a potential-customer, I have the same freedom to take my business elsewhere for any reason.

Based on my phone-call with their tech, I had merely assumed they were either refusing to hydro, or didn't think it was worth doing hydro, which I had zero problem with. However, the fact that they condemned the tank was a pretty big shock. Then forcefully demanding my signature and effectivley bullying it is what pisses me off more than losing the tank.

There’s a few similar threads on FB. If it’s a shop you need to maintain a relationship with, it’s a convo w the owner and some money or services owed to you. If it’s not and that convo doesn’t go anywhere, it’s a small claims thing, if only on principle.

 

[rhwestfall]

I am willing to be corrected with my statements here (and do correct me so this is not wrong for future readers to find), but this is how I understand it.

The Visual Eddy is an inspection method performed to identify SLC. Scuba Cylinders that were manufactured with 6351 alloy have a possibility of developing SLC issues. While it will also work on 6061 alloy, which is the standard for aluminum scuba tanks outside the Luxfer only 6351 issue for tanks manufactured pre-1988, 6061 is not suspect to SLC. There is no requirement to VE a 6061 tank (and I've even seen a VE sticker on a steel....).

Again, it is a shop's own rules to fill whatever they want or don't want to, and they could even ban pink tanks, but there are some standards that frequently seem to get blurred and mis-represented by folks.

To destroy property my made up or mis-interpreted regulations is BS.