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Tank failing Visual, shop condemned the tank?

Discussion in 'Tanks, Valves and Bands' started by acarter92, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. halocline

    halocline Solo Diver

    In the U.S., the law is that pressurized gas tanks need to be inspected by licensed test facilities, and only they have the authority to condemn a tank. Dive shops have no such authority! It doesn't matter one iota if they have taken any private courses (like PSI) on scuba tank inspection, those are basically meaningless in terms of the law allowing them to disable or disfigure customers' tanks. What they can do is refuse to fill them or put their sticker on the tank. That's it. In fact, they can refuse to fill any tank, for any reason. They own the compressor. But they do not own your tank.

    Find another shop and hope that the next one isn't even worse, hehe.
  2. BurhanMuntasser

    BurhanMuntasser Dive Charter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Nomad
    Can you cite the law(s) you are talking about and provide the exact text of the "law" supporting your claim above please?
    tridacna likes this.
  3. tridacna

    tridacna ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: New Jersey
    If I do a VE on a pre-89 AL and get thread failure, I simply return the tank to the customer with “Thread Failure” written with a Trump Sharpie on blue tape. I also include a printed copy of the failure report. Customer can do whatever they like with the tank. I just won’t pass or fill it. If another store fills it, not my problem.
    lowviz likes this.
  4. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    The applicable regulations are published by the Compressed Gas Association, for example Publication C-6. Those regulations have been incorporated into the Code of Federal Regulations 49CFR and 29CFR and have the weight of law. Unfortunately, the CGA publications must be purchased, and are expensive; all that is readily available is the Table of Contents, for example here for visual inspection of steel cylinders.
    lowviz likes this.
  5. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS

    How is there as conflict that effects how the shop passes of fails your tank. I understand the conflict you are ttring ot refer to.. but the hydro process says in writing to condemn and render unable to fill. a shop also by statute can not modify your personal property. that alone stops the shop. their conflict can result in failing tanks but not render them unuseable. If one shop fails it then go to another shop for a second opinion. If they say it failed also then authorize its destruction as a vessel. A hydro shop can do the same thing as the shop can do also when it comes to conflict of interest. The bottom line is that a hydro is a federal process that involves documentable testing. a VIS is more opinion as to whether it is a pass or fail in many aspects. You always look for a way to pass a tank and not to fail a tank. If there is a question,,,,,, you pass it. Next year it will become a hard fail. DOT requires hydro every x years. DOT , for the post part. doesnt care about vis's. There is no law breaking involved if you use a out dated hydroed tank for personal use. comercial use is a different matter. There are a lot of hot buttons that get pushed when talking about hydro and vis in the non comercial world.
    captain likes this.
  6. captain

    captain Captain

    couv likes this.
  7. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    My approach to this 'gray area' is the same. I feel properly covered by the CGA itself:

    "Experience in the inspection of cylinders is an important factor in determining the acceptability of a given cylinder for continued service. Users lacking this experience who have questionable cylinders should return them to a manufacturer of the same type of cylinders or to a competent requalification agency for re-inspection."

    CGA C-6 and CGA C-6.1 are the primary documents for steel and aluminum. The re-inspector is responsible for making sure he/she is always testing to the most current standard. The re-inspector is being paid to test to standards. Being overly cautious for your own personal peace of mind is not what the owner is paying for.

    I am a newbie inspector. As such, I am overly careful about following the guidelines. I can Accept, Reject, or Condemn a cylinder. If the cylinder is clearly a hazard then I would condemn it and render it unfit for refilling. I was surprised at the amount of internal damage that a cylinder can have and still be serviceable by CGA standards.

    There is a lot of 'judgment call' when it comes to cylinders that show internal damage. There are a lot of compromised scuba tanks in daily use and they aren't going off like popcorn on diver's backs. Statistics and my training tell me that the inspection standards are appropriate and should neither be relaxed nor strengthened.
  8. guruboy

    guruboy Divemaster ScubaBoard Supporter

    I’m not sure why people told OP to clean the sharpie off. Doesn’t make any difference to the tank or future inspection.
  9. BRT

    BRT Giant Squid

    I always get a kick out of this. The regulations have force of law, but you have to pay lots of money to know what that law is, so other people tell you what they think is in there.
    KWS and lowviz like this.
  10. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    @Ana ,

    Your views on this? (I noticed your 'likes' on this thread) I could reference a post or two of yours, but mostly pointless. You know what you posted and you stand by it as do I for all of my posts. As one OF to another...

    So, I have now removed the threat to my old steels that some wet behind the ears newbie VIP tester presents to my tried, seasoned, and trusted old girls. I alone do the O2 cleaning and VIP's. SDI sez so and sells me the stickers. Paid the bux, drove 1.2K miles to take the courses from someone who cares and I'm almost good. But there is still that hydro thing...

    I have a good hydro re-certifier contact through my new LDS who knows that I know what I'm talking about.

    We should all have to do this, no?
    captain and Marie13 like this.

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