Tank failing Visual, shop condemned the tank?

[wgw04024]

that would be looking at the customer as being valued.. sadly that is not how many shops do.. :-(

Wow, so well put! Who could say no to any of that?

 

[Ana]

More and more I see that one needs to invest whatever resources are necessary to be "very" knowledgeable about the whats and whys needed and not needed in diving.

It used to be enough to know that you need annual VIPs and 5 year Hydro's. I'm referring to the US, I'm aware other places have different rules about the frequency of testing.

But now you need to be aware of every single detail about your tank, down to its molecular level. Some materials are tricky and there's data about them, but it is also necessary to keep up with the sudden change of particular rules that emerge from any potential law suit a shop owner or his lawyer can dream up.

Gone are the days of "I have a local shop where I take my tanks" (damn you Fill Express) Even when you find a shop that you think is "your go-to shop" there's a need to keep your guard up because out of the blue they'll come up with some weird rule. 90% of the time these rules are camouflaged by safety... "if we can save at least one child" ...but as soon as you scratch the surface what you find is either some one's feelings without any evidence or plain greed.

X' ing out a tank with a sharpie? it would be funny if it wasn't such a sign of ignorance.
A real testing facility should consider that bad graffiti and just perform the test, maybe charge you a couple dollars more for the acetone/alcohol.

Saw cutting the tank for failing VIP? but passing the VIP with rust, contamination, or bad threads ?
ok, that makes sense... I didn't get the memo but obviously today is opposite day, maybe I need more coffee.

 

[Zieg]

.....maybe I need more coffee.

And flamingos, you can never have too many flamingos.

 

[captain]

What everyone gets hung up on are the words hydro test. Qualification or re-qualification is the term used in the CFR. It involves both the hydro-static test and the visual inspection. The hydro-static test is objective, the tank either passes the test or fails it if the test is properly done. The visual inspection is subjective, what one inspector considers sufficient reason to fail the inspection another inspector may not.
A newly qualified inspector may think every flaw he sees is reason to fail the tank, a more experienced inspector may use judgment acquired over years and may see the same flaws but not consider it sufficient reason to fail the inspection.

 

[OkByMe]

Per PCI/PSI

I, ________________________________________________________, owner (or authorized representative) of high pressure cylinder, serial number _______________, have requested your visual inspection and/or hydro test service. I understand that these vital safety examinations are needed at prescribed intervals to ensure the cylinder is safe for filling and continued service. I have been informed that various damaging factors, such as those described in the book Inspecting Cylinders (5th Edition), by William L. (Bill) High and Mark A. Gresham, may cause my cylinder to fail either assessment.

I agree, as a condition of having either service performed on my cylinder, that the cylinder may be conspicuously disabled if it does not meet the accepted standards of quality and I receive a written report which identifies the reason for failure. Also, I will have the disabled cylinder and all components returned to me.

Customer Signature__________________________________________Date__________

JUST ONE MORE REASON TO SIMPLY BYPASS THE SHOP AND GO DIRECTLY TO THE HYDRO FACILITY. THEY WILL VIS THE CYLINDER BEFORE TESTING AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM THEY WILL NOT TEST THE TANK AND CALL YOU.

THAT IS WHY I HAVE MY OWN COMPRESSOR AND TUMBLER, DO MY OWN VALVE AND CYLINDER MAINTENANCE. I USE THE SHOP FOR HYDRO IN ACCORDANCE WITH DOT REGS. THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER SHOP ONLY STAMPED OUT ONE OF MY 1978 ALUMINUM CYLINDERS AFTER IT PASSED VIS AND FAILED THE TEST. I HAVE BEEN USING THEM FOR OVER 40 YEARS - THE VIS AND HYRO COSTS $28.00. FOR SCUBA AND $54.00 FOR THE LARGER BANK CYLINDERS, OXYGEN, C02 AND HELIUM. THERE ARE NO WAVERS TO SIGN. LDS HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST SINCE THEY MANDATE AN ANNUAL VIS NOT REQUIRED BY DOT- WHICH THEY GLEEFULLY PROVIDE AND SELL CYLINDERS, WHICH THEY ALSO PROVIDE. (OF COURSE I USE THE CO2 FOR WELDING ONLY, HELIUM AND OXYGEN FOR WELDING/CUTTING AND TRIMIX)

 

[NAM001]

Hello,
I recently started diving again after a 3 year break. I took all 6 of my tanks to a LDS, most of the them needed hydro, they all needed VIS. My wife picked them up today and one of them failed the visual inspection. It also needed Hydro, but since it failed their visual they didn't send it for Hydro (makes perfect sense). I was surprised to find out that they wrote "condemned" all over it in sharpie and XXX's over the stamps. It's my understanding that a shop has no right to mark up a tank that failed a VIS, because visuals are based off of opinion right?

They said it had corrosion inside probably caused by the tank being completely bled off and saltwater getting inside, since I haven't owned the tank since new this is possible. But, I had the tank VIS'd, O2 cleaned and filled with Nitrox 3 years ago, and didn't end up using it at all, so it was still full to 3000PSI with the air from it's last VIS. This was done at a different LDS where I used to live and had a great relationship with.

So, do they have a right to "condemn" my tank based off a failed VIS? Upon looking inside with a flashlight I can't see anything bad going on, but it would have been nice to get a second opinion from another LDS before trashing my tank.

Since I didn't pick up the tanks I wasn't able to question them at pickup, so I just wanted to get some opinions on the matter before I call them next week.


Thanks.

The shop can do this. what they can not do is permanetely mark the tank. Permenately marking is using stamps llke the hydroer to XXX over anything. The sharkie marking has nothing to do with anything to prevent it form being used. find another vis guy and get a second opinion. PSI guys are pretty good at looking for soemthing wrong and a proper inspection will give you the exact reason for condemning recommendation. corrosion over 20% of the tank area etc. In regards to the tank not being used since last cleaning,,, Let me ask,,,,, how do you know the last service was actually done and you were not just charged for vis and cleaning? It happens a lot. Ive seen many 3 minute vis's done by 15 yo's in a mom and pop shop. If any questions PM me and I will send you an inspection form PSI used to perform a vis with ,,so you can see what is involved. No matter what it takes teh customers permission to permanently disable the tank by a vis guy. Its different with a hydro guy. Hydro guys are not allowed to retest in the event of a failure. YOu are allowed to re inspect in event of a VIS inspection. The difference is that one is a passive, non destructive INSPECTION and the other is an active potential destructive TEST.

 

[tridacna]

JUST ONE MORE REASON TO SIMPLY BYPASS THE SHOP AND GO DIRECTLY TO THE HYDRO FACILITY. THEY WILL VIS THE CYLINDER BEFORE TESTING AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM THEY WILL NOT TEST THE TANK AND CALL YOU.

THAT IS WHY I HAVE MY OWN COMPRESSOR AND TUMBLER, DO MY OWN VALVE AND CYLINDER MAINTENANCE. I USE THE SHOP FOR HYDRO IN ACCORDANCE WITH DOT REGS. THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER SHOP ONLY STAMPED OUT ONE OF MY 1978 ALUMINUM CYLINDERS AFTER IT PASSED VIS AND FAILED THE TEST. I HAVE BEEN USING THEM FOR OVER 40 YEARS - THE VIS AND HYRO COSTS $28.00. FOR SCUBA AND $54.00 FOR THE LARGER BANK CYLINDERS, OXYGEN, C02 AND HELIUM. THERE ARE NO WAVERS TO SIGN. LDS HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST SINCE THEY MANDATE AN ANNUAL VIS NOT REQUIRED BY DOT- WHICH THEY GLEEFULLY PROVIDE AND SELL CYLINDERS, WHICH THEY ALSO PROVIDE. (OF COURSE I USE THE CO2 FOR WELDING ONLY, HELIUM AND OXYGEN FOR WELDING/CUTTING AND TRIMIX)

IS THE CAPS LOCK KEY STUCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD? I WOULD GET THE KEYBOARD HYDRO’D IMMEDIATELY.

 

[broncobowsher]

IS THE CAPS LOCK KEY STUCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD? I WOULD GET THE KEYBOARD HYDRO’D IMMEDIATELY.

And fail the monitor by putting a bunch of black XXXs with a sharpie across the screen.

 

[tursiops]

And fail the monitor by putting a bunch of black XXXs with a sharpie across the screen.

Oh no! Another misused Sharpie....

 

[OkByMe]

IS THE CAPS LOCK KEY STUCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD? I WOULD GET THE KEYBOARD HYDRO’D IMMEDIATELY.

Using a small on screen keyboard at the time... easier for me to see for I am no touch typist.