Tank failing Visual, shop condemned the tank?

[tursiops]

If the shop is that bad, it will have it's own reputation. If locals don't know which shop it is, there is no reason to bring it up.

Apparently not. The OP is a local and went to the shop and got doubly screwed, it seems. Sure, a full two-sided investigation has not been done, but without knowing who the shop is, there is no way to test the reputation. And if no one who got screwed ever says anything, how does the reputation change?

 

[wgw04024]

@broncobowsher I don't really agree with that. There could be numerous people, that all have had their own small brushes with a shop in question, but maybe it wasn't enough to call them out publicly. Collectively, maybe it's valid. If nobody talks about it, it never gets to that point. The more I think about it, why really would you say it should never be said?

 

[linc213]

There aren’t that many shops in the state...I’ve never dealt with Barclays or the shop in Wilton. Aquacity used to do in house hydros but I’m not sure of the status there, it seems to be hit or miss. Never had anything done by Johnson’s but they have been great when I have been in there. Aqua Diving Academy has always been great to me, I drive the 2+ hours to go there if needed. I can understand the OP not wanting to disclose the shop but on the other hand, it would be great to know as we in the state don’t have a lot of choices compared to some.

 

[Justin Bove]

I checked into this extensively some time back. It's good that you get them to sign a waiver - do they really know what they are signing? Without the waiver, what you are doing is patently illegal. No one doing a visual inspection (as per PSI-PCI direct communication) has any right nor authorization to destroy private property not their own. Their only right is to refuse to certify the tank. Even hydro testing facilities are authorized only to stamp X's over the DOT marking. They are not allowd to destroy private property either.

Per PCI/PSI

I, ________________________________________________________, owner (or authorized representative) of high pressure cylinder, serial number _______________, have requested your visual inspection and/or hydro test service. I understand that these vital safety examinations are needed at prescribed intervals to ensure the cylinder is safe for filling and continued service. I have been informed that various damaging factors, such as those described in the book Inspecting Cylinders (5th Edition), by William L. (Bill) High and Mark A. Gresham, may cause my cylinder to fail either assessment.

I agree, as a condition of having either service performed on my cylinder, that the cylinder may be conspicuously disabled if it does not meet the accepted standards of quality and I receive a written report which identifies the reason for failure. Also, I will have the disabled cylinder and all components returned to me.

Customer Signature__________________________________________Date__________

 

[cerich]

If you're taking your cylinder to a shop with a $10/hour goober doing your visual inspection you're not very smart to begin with. Better off buying VIP sticker from eBay and doing inspection yourself. A professional will provide a very detailed report, pictures, and most importantly possibly save your life and the lives of those around the cylinder.
edit by moderator
Also remember the reason you are paying for a visual inspection is to potentially save your life, no law requires a VIP.

So basically what we have is people that take a course from a certain agency deciding that they will follow DOT CFR's for hydro testing and using them as justification during an inspection that is NOT required by law.

That said, the VIP is important and IMHO much better from a safety POV than just the regulatory required hydro with visual period.

The actual CFR's for Hydro/VIP by gov certified testers.


(2) When a cylinder must be condemned, the requalifier must -

(i) Stamp a series of X's over the DOT specification number and the marked pressure or stamp “CONDEMNED” on the shoulder, top head, or neck using a steel stamp;

(ii) For composite cylinders, securely affix to the cylinder a label with the word “CONDEMNED” overcoated with epoxy near, but not obscuring, the original cylinder manufacturer's label; or

(iii) As an alternative to the stamping or labeling as described in this paragraph (i)(2), at the direction of the owner, the requalifier may render the cylinder incapable of holding pressure.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

If I fail a tank durning visual inspection I drill a hole in the neck, or if I'm feeling nice cut the tank in half on the bandsaw so you can make a cool dinner bell. Of course I make you sign a pre-inspection waiver, then provide a detailed VIP sheet and take pictures of the damage to cover my butt. It might make you mad, but I can't let you have a potential 3000 PSI bomb waiting to happen. You or your next of kin and everyone hurt will sue me.
The reason why most PSI/PCI accredited VIP shops don't call you before permanently destroying your cylinder is two fold. One you signed a release form that specified what would happen (destroyed) if it failed visual inspection. Two if you call the customer and tell them you have to make the cylinder inoperable they will argue with you and try to bully you in to giving it back undamaged....My lawyer will blah blah.... It's just smarter to decommission the faulty tank and tell you afterwards. If you want to sue me for a $100 tank go ahead...I have signed form, pictures of damage, and was protecting you and everyone coming in contact with the cylinder.

Wow .... I mean just wow! In other words, you will avoid communication with a paying customer simply because they will 'argue' back on how you should handle their personal property? I understand that as a tank inspector you have certain professional obligations but they are towards the person whose tank you are handling right? You should have won enough of your customers trust that when you call him and tell him that the tank is dangerous to be used, they respect your professional opinion to the point where they will not use that tank regardless of whether you drill a hole in it or cut it into two etc. That kind of trust is only obtained with mastering the exact same communication you are so eager to avoid.

Every word that you have written seems to imply that you perceive customer as a "pest." With this kind of contempt towards customers, everyone on scubaboard still sits and ponders occasionally why scuba industry is in a state of decline. Here is your answer folks! It is because of this guy. Every second dive business seems to have one of these nowadays.

No I wont sue you for $100 tank. I will get on google customer reviews and tell "Uncle Google" that dealing with you has been a horrible experience because you are out-rightly arrogant and self-entitled. Everyone consults "Uncle Google" before purchasing anything and those who do not please "Uncle Google" always lose no matter how highly they think of themselves. My negative review will be protected by law just like your actions and you will soon learn that there is an art to making someone's life miserable while staying within the law and your customer may know that art better than you.

 

[Superlyte27]

What it ultimately boils down to is trust. How many times (including this OP getting ripped off on his reg overhaul) do we see shady shops do shady stuff in the hopes of making a sale. Our shop...if we fail a tank, we'll show you why. Then we'll decide together how best to dispose of it. EVERYONE makes mistakes. I'd rather communicate clearly on the front side than owe you a new cylinder or lose your trust as a customer. But what do I know? We're the only surviving shop in the county for over 40 years.

 

[cerich]

Wow .... I mean just wow! In other words, you will avoid communication with a paying customer simply because they will 'argue' back on how you should handle their personal property? I understand that as a tank inspector you have certain professional obligations but they are towards the person whose tank you are handling right? You should have won enough of your customers trust that when you call him and tell him that the tank is dangerous to be used, they respect your professional opinion to the point where they will not use that tank regardless of whether you drill a hole in it or cut it into two etc. That kind of trust is only obtained with mastering the exact same communication you are so eager to avoid.

Every word that you have written seems to imply that you perceive customer as a "pest." With this kind of contempt towards customers, everyone on scubaboard still sits and ponders occasionally why scuba industry is in a state of decline. Here is your answer folks! It is because of this guy. Every second dive business seems to have one of these nowadays.

No I wont sue you for $100 tank. I will get on google customer reviews and tell "Uncle Google" that dealing with you has been a horrible experience because you are out-rightly arrogant and self-entitled. Everyone consults "Uncle Google" before purchasing anything and those who do not please "Uncle Google" always lose no matter how highly they think of themselves. My negative review will be protected by law just like your actions and you will soon learn that there is an art to making someone's life miserable while staying within the law and your customer may know that art better than you.

Hi Mike? It's Chris from the dive shop. I have some bad news, we just did the VIP on your tank and it failed. If you want to drop by we can show you what caused the failure, or we can email you some pictures showing it. There are a few options here, we can give you back the tank so you can get the scrap value, we can take it and get it scrapped for you and we'll give you a 75% of the scrap value as a store credit. The last option is the most fun, you know that scuba tank bell you liked by the service counter? We can cut your tank in half and you can make a bell or we'll even make it into a bell for you for only $40 so you can hang in your man(or woman) cave or bar. yeah, we hate when these fail as well.

In the mean time, if you were planning to dive it this weekend or whatever, grab one of the shop tanks and we'll only charge you for the fill and not rental fee. You really should come outt his weekend, I just bought the brats we are gonna be BBQ'ing.

Thanks Mike, see you Friday!

 

[Superlyte27]

Hi Mike? It's Chris from the dive shop. I have some bad news, we just did the VIP on your tank and it failed. If you want to drop by we can show you what caused the failure, or we can email you some pictures showing it. There are a few options here, we can give you back the tank so you can get the scrap value, we can take it and get it scrapped for you and we'll give you a 75% of the scrap value as a store credit. The last option is the most fun, you know that scuba tank bell you liked by the service counter? We can cut your tank in half and you can make a bell or we'll even make it into a bell for you for only $40 so you can hang in your man(or woman) cave or bar. yeah, we hate when these fail as well.

In the mean time, if you were planning to dive it this weekend or whatever, grab one of the shop tanks and we'll only charge you for the fill and not rental fee. You really should come outt his weekend, I just bought the brats we are gonna be BBQ'ing.

Thanks Mike, see you Friday!

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[cerich]

EXACTLY!!!!

that would be looking at the customer as being valued.. sadly that is not how many shops do.. :-(