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Tank failing Visual, shop condemned the tank?

Discussion in 'Tanks, Valves and Bands' started by acarter92, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    That would be a good call.

    So this is what the professional agencies have off-loaded onto the LDS's???

    How about a clear, concise, unarguable (voluntary by consensus) standard across the entire recreational dive community?
  2. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    I'll have that right up in a jiffy!

    captain and lowviz like this.
  3. JackD342

    JackD342 Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Highland Park, IL
    Just who do you think it is that is doing any off loading??
  4. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    The overarching aegis authority.

    Oh, wait. Is there one???
  5. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: United States
    Hey, I never said it was financially viable. But some people have f*ck you money and just like to prove the point.

    I'm trying to think of some analogy for allowing someone to destroy your property "for cause," but it's against the law for them to do so in the first place, but I'm not coming up with anything off the top of my head at midnight and a quarter.....

    But they also have an objective test that they can fall back on, as well as the weight of the CFR. A tank monkey isn't authorized by law to destroy property to condemn a cylinder, whereas a hydro facility is. So even with a waiver, I'm not so sure Joe Blow PSI-guy is actually covered.
    captain and rsingler like this.
  6. captain

    captain Captain

    Yes, but a better reply is to say YOU feel the tank is unsafe and recommend the owner should bring it to an authorized re qualifier for testing. You will have then applied due diligence and the onus is on the owner. No different than if a mechanic tell a driver his brakes need service and are unsafe, the driver can have them serviced, take the car to another mechanic or do nothing.
    lowviz, Bob DBF and Sam Miller III like this.
  7. 2airishuman

    2airishuman Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Greater Minnesota
    The standard behavior at the LDSs I patronize, if the tank is failing viz, is that:
    • They do not charge the customer anything
    • The words they use are "I do not believe that it is safe to fill this tank"
    • They will show the customer exactly what concerns them. If internal, using a proper tank light.
    • They return the tank undamaged and unmarked but with the valve uninstalled.
    I do my own viz in most cases but if there are any questions in my mind I take the cylinder to a dive shop. There have been rare instances when someone has "failed" a VIP where I have taken it to another shop and said, "someone else looked at this and said it was unsafe to fill, what do you think?" And in one of those cases a more careful, more thorough check where the depth of the pits was *actually measured* rather than eyeballed resulted in the cylinder being passed.

    I buy used cylinders. There are many of them that have been failed and scrapped. They were unsafe and that was the best outcome for everyone.

    But condemning cylinders showing show slight corrosion that careful, objective measurements show is within the allowed amount does nothing to improve safety.

    So, if you're an LDS, and you're going to be in the business of XXXXIng out markings on the cylinder, then you better measure, and follow the standards in the CFRs and the CGA pamphlets, and document your findings, and only XXXX those cylinders that actually fail, not the ones that "look bad" or don't meet your "personal standards."
    captain likes this.
  8. TheGraveyardDiver

    TheGraveyardDiver Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Morehead City, NC USA
    So, what if the visual inspector is a RIN number holder for visual inspections, but is not a re-qualifier?
    My RIN number permits me to do DOT visual inspections, but does not permit me to do hydrostatic testing.
    I'm still required to adhere to DOT standards, and have to comply with the DOT man coming around and "inspecting" my shop, but I don't do hydros.

    None of the dive shops around here consider the requalifier visual inspection as valid, and none of the hydro testers around here put a VIP decal on a cylinder they've hydro'd. If I was to show up at either of my LDS's with a cylinder that was hydro'd yesterday, neither one of them would fill it until it has a VIP decal.
  9. Bob DBF

    Bob DBF Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: NorCal
    Times change, back when they started doing the VIP, I never needed a sticker during the first year of the hydro, since the inspection was done. As time went on I guess the shops needed the extra revenue. The VIP is a scuba industry convention, and what passes the inspection can vary widely from shop to shop. I don't get how a VIP trumps a DOT inspection, it dosen't make sense to me either.

    Kharon likes this.

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