Taken the classes but having hard time getting final cert dives :(

[booth22]

Rob;

I just wanted to add that as you have no overhead (ie no store front) which enables you to have lower prices than some of the big shops with rent/utilities/inventory. A savings you pass on to your students.
I'm not going to debate though the pros and cons of a store front. Just putting into perspective why you are able to charge less.

He also doesn't have those same retail items to make a profit from.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

Seems certification costs are pretty high even at the lake. I've seen on some local dive shop web sites that lake certification runs between 200-300$. From what I can tell Scuba Sciences certification cost is only 117$.

I agree 200-300 to do OW1-4 at the lake seems a bit steep, seems to be the going rate though, except for Rob ($95). I don't think you can compare the portion of S.Sciences SoCal trip packages for students ($117) to this though, they are totally different animals. But as I said before I think S.Sciences SoCal trips are fairly priced based on my experience, and a good value as compared to other local shops Catalina trips.

Let's step back and re-analyze the hostility. I don't think it's a debate of SSI vs PADI or Instructor vs Instructor (BTW James is great (my OWI) and so is Rob (my AOWI)) or the "favorability" of California checkouts vs Lake checkouts. What I seem to be hearing is a problem with the business model decisions S.Sciences has employed, some say it's "bad business", some would argue it's "smart business" some just have an axe to grind or a grudge to bear, fine, let's hear it, and give them (Tina) a chance to respond in an open forum.

S.Sciences for me personally, just never gained my trust, by pontificating and gushing half-truths and therefore never gained my respect (with the exception of James, I like and Art and Karen too). Loyalty as so many like to throw out, respect and trust in a shop is not something earned because I found you first in the phone book or passed your shop on the freeway or you were the closest shop to my house or even if I was referred. It is not even implied just because I am taking a class, got a fill, took a trip or bought a piece of gear. Not just S.Sciences but a lot of dive shops seem to think just because you are or were a customer that they somehow magically inherited your "Loyalty". The thing is their perceived definition of Loyalty equates to dollars, mine does not. That's the business though and I understand that, but I don't have to fall into that trap. I'm sorry but I'm not going to spend more than I have to of my hard earned dollars because of some ill conceived notion that I somehow owe this shop or that shop something in return for some service I paid them to do in the first place. If it's all about the money for them, then it's all about the return in value to me.

S.Specialties (Frankie and Steven) have gained my respect by the way they treat their customers, that is why they get my business and will get a shot at my business when I want/need a large gear purchases. Rob has gained my respect and trust as an great Instructor and I'm thankfully spared all the gear peddler nonsense. My loyalty is reserved for myself and my kids, not some retail outlet.

Whoops kindof got on a Soapbox there, but the whole 'loyalty' to your LDS thing really gets me. What have they done for you besides the job they are paid to do??

Garrett

 

[GreenDiverDown]

You couldn't be farther from the truth with that comment.

Well if that was the case we wouldn't be having this discussion... would we?

Hey, Tina... it is perfectly fine if you don't want to teach at the lake. That's your call as an instructor and none of us have the right to question your decision. As far as that goes, Scuba Sciences (the store) can certainly choose not to train at the lake.... for what ever reason.

But if I'm wrong, then please tell me why, when a customer no longer wishes to complete their training at one of your facilities, will you not do everything you can to help them continue their training with another local shop? Please tell me again why you won't issue referrals to other Arizona dive centers.

I'm not just blowing smoke, here... I've seen it and heard it. When people ask Paul for help switching to another shop they get a song and dance worthy of Broadway. Why not say something like ... "We're sorry you no longer wish to train here." "How can we help you get set up with another shop?" "Maybe you'll come back and see us after you get certified!" Instead, customers caught in this position, will get a load of BS... "The lake's not safe"... or... "Don't go to that shop... they do a weekend course and if you certify with them you'll die."

I've heard these things from more than one customer and I personally have had Paul tell me similar things.

Even you came on here and basically said the same thing...

Our policy is not to issue Referrals to other Arizona dive centers because we feel our student's first scuba diving experience should be a safe, clear and enjoyable one. Student Training in the Arizona lakes is not favorable for certifications due to limited visibility, the Instructor cannot see the students to maintain control and safety, and it doesn't prepare students to dive in the oceans once certified.

Hogwash, I say. The lake isn't the issue. Or do you really mean what you said above? Do you really believe that your shop is the only safe, competent and professional scuba business in Arizona?

 

[mikeylee]

I have somewhat of a unique perspective on this, ignorant from a diving standpoint but unique none the lesson. I am Iroc's father who Iroc got very interested in diving. Okay, to be fair, a little Discover Scuba experience in Key Largo helped me realize why he was so excited about learning to dive. Although I was looking at signing up with an LDS much closer to my home, Iroc and my lovely daughter-in-law, Irocess (?) were so excited about Scuba Sciences that I went and spoke with Paul about classes. I previously worked in sales where the customer is king and now work in a business where I have to get along with a wide variety of people so I think I am an easy and appreciative customer. I was very disappointed with the way Paul handled every store issue (down to telling staff how to stock the shelves) before giving me his incomplete attention. Most of his talk was telling me the difference between Scuba Sciences and other local dive shops was that SS would make me a "diver". I was very turned off by what I saw and heard. However, I did learn how to approach my LDS about classes. Being around a long time does not mean you have a great business model or people skills. I think Paul is fortunate some of his staff is excellent and that big sign on the I-17 helps!

I can also assure everyone here that Iroc discussed details with Scuba Sciences about his new and permanent work schedule changes. Iroc loves, I mean LOVES, to discuss details (no offense son) so I know they were covered. Anyway, Paul is giving grief to customers who are trying to work withing the rules but the rules are not only restrictive but confining. Whe he turned me off, he lost a customer who, while not wealthy by any means, loves to spend money on my hobbies. My LDS will be very pleased come the first of the year. Oh well, that is enough from me. Thanks for letting me add absultely nothing to this thread.
mikelyee

 

[scubajcf]

Thanks for the story Mikey. Hopefully, some folks, who need to learn about service, learn something from your story ... I am confident you are not alone in your experience. Then again, I am sure there are some folks with completely opposite stories ... somewhere.

Unless Tina wants to get a final word in (I would love to see her reply to Steve), I vote we kill this thread and move on to some positive stuff.

Scuba should never be a source of stress!!!!

jcf

 

[Dive-aholic]

He also doesn't have those same retail items to make a profit from.

You beat me to it, Kris.

I was very disappointed with the way Paul handled every store issue (down to telling staff how to stock the shelves) before giving me his incomplete attention. Most of his talk was telling me the difference between Scuba Sciences and other local dive shops was that SS would make me a "diver". I was very turned off by what I saw and heard.

I've had a few very similar experiences with Paul. My old LDS owner is the same way. It's one of the reasons I began teaching independently. I can understand business taking a forefront, but not at the expense of your customers.

Ignore your customers and they will go away.

I vote we kill this thread and move on to some positive stuff.

Just when it's getting good!

 

[GreenDiverDown]

So Iroc... what's the latest?

 

[catalina03]

Regardless of the industry, the customer's perception is going to drive their buying decisions and their decisions to continue to support or not to support a particular estabishment. This thread has brought a great deal of divers to the table for discussion. This is a good thing...The more divers are involved in discussions, the safer the sport will be now and in the future.

I wonder whether if there were a call for all divers to come to the lake on a Saturday or Sunday, simply to have a BBQ and blow bubbles, would there be the same amount of divers who have chosen to add their dime's worth in this thread. I am not suggesting that the comments have not been good. They have been based on experiences, perceptions, emotions. All of these are good for the diving industry.

Let's get on with being safe.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

I wonder whether if there were a call for all divers to come to the lake on a Saturday or Sunday, simply to have a BBQ and blow bubbles, would there be the same amount of divers who have chosen to add their dime's worth in this thread.

Actually we did that in July at Lake Pleasant and had a great showing, probably 30+ divers and many more family and friends throughout the course of the day. A far greater amount of divers than have voiced their opinion in this thread, so what is it exactly that your are suggesting???

Garrett

BTW Welcome to Scubaboard

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I'm not sure what the suggestion is, either.

(Edited to remove suggestion that had no chance of being taken seriously.)