Taken the classes but having hard time getting final cert dives :(

[pinkladydi]

my only negativity is with PAUL and his business practices, he double billed me so since 1988 I have been advertissing that

 

[pinkladydi]

how come the only people that have anything good to say about SS is their staff "their lil piggy's"

 

[shark.byte.usa]

get real in April 2007 when PADI comes out with their Open Water Courses on Line , who will that help in the world of Scuba ?... Scuba Sciences has always taught the most cutting edge courses there are, not by AV or INTERNET in person ......the real way.

I find this interesting...

http://www.ssiusa.com/why.htm
SSI's the Leader in Home Study Training.
Home study is the hottest thing in dive training because it allows you to spend more time in the water developing ability and comfort. In 1990 SSI pioneered this technique, and we're still the leader today.

Q: What's the difference between "Home Study" (i.e. books & dvd's) and online courseware?
A: NOT A DAMN THING!

So Paul now not only are you bashing by proxy for Scuba Sciences, Inc., the way other shops, not just locally, run their courses, but now your own training agency. Smooth...

If you would take the time to read this thread in it's entirety, nobody is questioning the ability of your instructors or DM's, actually we've had nice things to say.

...allowed to count a maximum of 10 dives in the lakes the rest have to be in the ocean thats why our divers are so strong !

As compared to who?? So diving in a warm water reef with 100' viz in [place tropical dive destination here] vs let's say The Great Lakes, Lake Tahoe or Lake Plesant will make me a stronger diver? I say a broader range of experiences and (wait for it...) diving will make you stronger but the environment is all relative to the conditions not the pretty fish and salt water.

...without the stores, Scuba as we know it will be gone

Scuba as you know it is already going...The faster everybody understands this the better for the sport. Antequated business models will not survive the next decade. Misinformation and pontificating will not work as we become more digital and have more information at our fingertips, the internet is still in it's infancy, we can't imagine what will come next, the scuba industry will be slow to adapt but it will eventually. Avoiding this simple fact and demonizing the internet whether for providing courses or selling gear and "staying the course" will ultimately lead to disaster for those LDSs who choose to ignore change.

Paul, why don't you address some of the issues brought to your attention here instead of arguing for the sake of it. Scubaboard does build divers up with INFORMATION, if and how they choose to use and interpret it is up to them, joining up and telling people they're very wrong anonymously is the way to get torn down.

-Garrett

 

[booth22]

Scuba Sciences And Their Staff Do A Great Job.I Have Always Been Treated Fair.Have Learned Alot Of Valuable Training.Quit Bashing On Them.You Jealous?Move On With It.I Have To Go Now,I'M Becoming A Padi Diver On Line.5 Easy Steps.Now Is That Really Safe?You Tell Me?I Forgot,You Will All Tell Me.I'm Proud To Be With The SAFE Dive Shop.Thanks For Your Time................................Timmay............................ Oh Yeah,Cheaper Is Not Always Better.You Get What You Pay For.In Anything You Do.Remeber That..........

 

[Dive-aholic]

Scuba Sciences And Their Staff Do A Great Job.I Have Always Been Treated Fair.Have Learned Alot Of Valuable Training.Quit Bashing On Them.You Jealous?Move On With It.I Have To Go Now,I'M Becoming A Padi Diver On Line.5 Easy Steps.Now Is That Really Safe?You Tell Me?I Forgot,You Will All Tell Me.I'm Proud To Be With The SAFE Dive Shop.Thanks For Your Time................................Timmay............................ Oh Yeah,Cheaper Is Not Always Better.You Get What You Pay For.In Anything You Do.Remeber That..........

I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this. I suppose just to keep the thread going. Although, the entertainment value is quickly diminishing.

Now let me see...Garrett already pointed it out, and if I'm not mistaken, SSI did introduce independent study before PADI did. I think I'll become an SSI diver just by reading a book and sending in for my card. :mooner:

Also, you're saying I should buy all of my gear from Scuba Sciences because it's better than the same exact brand and model which sells for a couple hundred dollars less at ScubaToys just because I get what I pay for? You're right, I get more when I buy from other places. Also, if Scuba Sciences didn't have a big bus with a flat screen TV, then maybe they would be able to drop their prices. Gotta pay for the toys. :no

WHat you're not getting is that this is a pretty close community out here. We like to dive together. There are a few members here that don't dive the lake, but they also don't bash the lake. In fact, I know of one that even came out and tried it. Have you ever tried it? If the Scuba Sciences posse hadn't come on here and started bashing everyone here and preaching their high and mighty, holier than thou attitude about diving, you would have seen a much different attitude from us. We always welcome new divers. We even welcomed you...at first.

Why don't you do us all a favor and just forget you ever signed into ScubaBoard, or at the very least the Arizona Scuba forum. Things were just fine before the SS Posse showed up. I think we would all like it that way. The entertainment is now gone. Maybe a MOD can close this thread. It's lost its value.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

But You Always Have Something To Say.Negative That Is.

Typical, you call me out for being negative, yet don't address a single thing written previously, was it possible for me to be positive about your posts, did any of your posts afford me that opportunity? All 4 or your posts have been negative towards this community's views and experiences and aggressive in nature. What'd you expect?

Tina was the only one to come on here and have the guts to defend her position with class, since her position conflicted with the majority of the forum users here, she got a bit hammered, to be expected, as I said this thread was a long time coming, there was a lot of pent-up aggression, she also received some concessions too. At least I'll give her props and respect for her effort and expressing her views. I hope she continues to be a member of our Arizona Forum and takes part in future discussions, becomes an active member of this community and not simply a billboard.

Paul and yourself have added no value to this discussion, it's like having a debate with a couple 5 year olds. At first it's entertaining then you wish they'd just be quiet.

-Garrett

edit: for content

 

[diversteve]

Maybe a MOD can close this thread. It's lost its value.

I've just asked one to review this thread before it degrades any further. Personal attacks violate the Terms of Service that everyone agreed to when they became SB members. While I don't think anyone has done that yet, we're getting awfully close.

The dive community in Phoenix is small enough, we don't need any further division,

 

[sugarshane]

man this is fun to listen to. Obviously you guys don't know the difference between scuba schools international and scuba sceinces inc. you all get caught up in the letters. Scuba schools international is only interested in one thing and that being making money and screw the diver. scuba sciences is all about the safety and well being of their divers. You wanna buy gear on the internet fine but when it breaks down and you cant get it fixed cuz it dont have a warranty then just "save some money" and go buy you another one, WOW how ignorant is that? you guys are a bunch of haters. leave it to the az people to cry, and moan.

 

[diversteve]

man this is fun to listen to. Obviously you guys don't know the difference between scuba schools international and scuba sceinces inc. you all get caught up in the letters. Scuba schools international is only interested in one thing and that being making money and screw the diver.

Then why does Scuba Sciences continue to be an SSI dealer? Emphasis on the word dealer. Not that that is a bad thing, no one begrudges Scuba Sciences their ability and desire to be profitable, in fact it should be encouraged as we all continue to need local dive stores even after sales of Scuba gear move onto the Internet - (see below). There are tangible benefits of having a local store like Scuba Sciences - hands-on/try-on of gear, pool training, airfills, immediate use of the equipment purchased and (for me) convenience so I will continue to pay the higher prices for items bought at Scuba Sciences. At least until SS adopts the Internet model that the rest of the world is going to.

scuba sciences is all about the safety and well being of their divers.

I have no doubt that that is the case. I would demand nothing less from an LDS. I've observed it there, but also from other LDS's and independent instructors in the Valley. To claim that only Scuba Sciences provides this is ridiculous and not worth discussing. It should be every dive operations highest priority since this is a self-regulating industry.

You wanna buy gear on the internet fine but when it breaks down and you cant get it fixed cuz it dont have a warranty then just "save some money" and go buy you another one,

Actually Scubatoys.com in Dallas offers full manufacturers warranties on everything they sell. Including the complete Zeagle line among others. With the full and complete knowledge/participation of Zeagle - as witnessed by their support in the Zeagle forum here. And LeisurePro offers their own warranty on most of what they sell. So your argument just doesn't hold water. And btw, I've had gear serviced at Scuba Sciences that was purchased online without comment.

Which is how it should be and has been my experience at LDS's in Phoenix. What difference should it make where the gear was purchased? A smart LDS owner realizes the value of the service revenue, in addition to bringing potential customers into the store at least twice. I don't know about you, but I can't go into an LDS without buying or at least wanting something new.

One of the fundamental changes in the industry, as witnessed at the DEMA - Dive Equipment Manufacturers Assn. show last week, is a shift to doing more business and training via the Internet. E-Commerce has been upon us for the last decade, only now is the dive industry fully embracing the concept, witnessed by the online training that both SSI and now PADI are embracing. As well as the profound success of online retailers such as Scubatoys, Oceanic, LeisurePro, DiversDiscount and others.

Scuba Sciences also does this - to a lesser extent - with their website advertising their products and services. I feel that within the next five years every local dive shop will adopt the Internet sales model or close their doors. Look at Saguaro Sports in Mesa - they match Internet prices - it's even advertised on their website.

Atomic Aquatics just announced an Internet sales program that they are implementing this month. Can ScubaPro be far behind? Not if they want to stay competitive.

WOW how ignorant is that?

I'd ask the same question of you. Ever even been to another dive store in town? Or dove with members of this "group"?

you guys are a bunch of haters. leave it to the az people to cry, and moan.

No one hates anyone. Diving is just not that important a part of life. Don't make stupid generalizations. btw, What az people are you referring to? The ones who post here? Like Tina and others who work at and support Scuba Sciences? Or their customers, a lot of whom regularly post here. Who represent Scuba Sciences training and practices very well here, even in the face of adversity - at least in this post...

BTW, I'm an SSI Diver and was certified at Scuba Sciences in 1981. I have seen firsthand Scuba Sciences business practices. I once had a similar experience like the OP's father's post, that of being rudely ignored immediately after a large sale. But I still purchased gear there after that - Ranger LTD, Scubapro gauges - that I can't buy anywhere else in town, even though I could have purchased the Ranger cheaper on-line with full warranty coverage.

So if I'm one of those az people, you owe me an apology as I'm indirectly supporting your career path at Scuba Sciences.

I don't "hate" Scuba Sciences, in fact I go out of my way to support them so that they don't go away. There is value in having an LDS and there is value in on-line sales as well. This has been discussed so many times here that I'm loath to re-iterate it - do a search for LDS vs. Internet sales. Both models are valid. It's increasingly obvious that the Scuba industry will have to adopt the online model just like the rest of the world has. Ever heard of a site called Amazon.com or a little pez-dispenser selling site? Now called eBay...

I also choose to do business with Scuba Specialties and El Mar in Mesa as they provide goods and services at competitive prices with Scuba Sciences. I encourage you to do the same and form your own opinion. Curious that no negative threads about either of them have ever appeared here...

I for one welcome the open participation of people like yourself, Timmay, Scubapig52, and others who express opposing viewpoints in this thread/forum.

It's unfortunate that this participation had to come as a result of Scuba Sciences having to defend it's practices in an open forum.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

man this is fun to listen to. Obviously you guys don't know the difference between scuba schools international and scuba sceinces inc. you all get caught up in the letters. Scuba schools international is only interested in one thing and that being making money and screw the diver. scuba sciences is all about the safety and well being of their divers. You wanna buy gear on the internet fine but when it breaks down and you cant get it fixed cuz it dont have a warranty then just "save some money" and go buy you another one, WOW how ignorant is that? you guys are a bunch of haters. leave it to the az people to cry, and moan.

Welcome to the board Shane

Shane and I were dive buddies in OW class, I guess you could call him my first dive buddy and someone I would consider a friend. A good guy and a good diver. Hopefully I can get him to go do a local dive with us someday.

-Garrett

Post #700