Spiegel Grove??

[RonFrank]

We seem to have a couple versions of this story.

LjInFla has added some interesting information that CaseManager says is incorrect.

I'd LOVE to hear the instructors point of view!!

In any event here is ONE thing that I don't think has been discussed.

Regardless of who was watching whom (or lack there of), or the events that lead up to the panic CaseManager, did one thing (at LEAST) VERY wrong, and that is to add air to the BC to ascend. Assuming one is nuteral, adding air to a BC to ascend while finning to the surface is a sure way to guarentee an out of control ascent.

CaseManager, you assume that you instructor was not performing their responsibility, but I'm not all that sure you were in a state of mind to assess that. In any event, if a student at 90' punches the inflator, adds a bunch of air to the BC, and starts a rapid ascent, there is very little any instructor is going to be able to do to stop such an ascent without getting hurt. One can attempt to grab a fin or leg, but as the air in the BC expands, a VERY rapid ascent is going to snowball into a rocket launch to the surface.

In any event Casemanger, learn something here. When you want to ascend, you just start finning to the surface, and DUMP air as you go! In fact I often make sure I can dump air (ensure air is not trapped) before I start to ascend as I've had issues with trapped air during an ascent, and it's difficult to control an ascent if one has trapped air in the wing.

 

[LJinFLA]

We seem to have a couple versions of this story.

I'd LOVE to hear the instructors point of view!!

THe instructor would be ill-advised to comment here, especially given the proclivity toward legal claims demonstrated by casemanager and his strong desire to find blame and responsibility outside himself.

CaseManager, you assume that you instructor was not performing their responsibility, but I'm not all that sure you were in a state of mind to assess that.

Here Here!!!

LJ

 

[RonFrank]

well ljinfl, i didnt know you were an MD, where did you learn that I have a panic disorder?

Do you? You certainly have not denied it?

I have dived before and never experienced this panic situation nor have I ever felt that I was being unwatched.

RU suggesting that not being watched resulted in a panic attack?

I give total respect and trust to my instructor when I dive anytime. They are MASTERS.

So is the chick that cuts my hair. In fact I'm very sure she has logged more haircut time than most instructors will log UW. But that does not mean I won't get a bad haircut? Like in any profession people are people, and one instructor may not do things exactly like another. They are also NOT all Masters, just the Master instructors!!

The point is that I was doing a checkout dive with my instructor, I have dived before and have always been carefully watched by my instructors. Thats why they are instructors, they are trained in noticing certain things that I am not as a open water diver.

As an OW certified diver, the instructor is NOT responsible for you, that is YOUR job, and that of your buddy. When I did my Deep dive we only had two students, but the instructor was NOT watching me every second because at one point she was doing the skill drill with the other student.

After we finished the skill, she left us (she had 24 OW students to feed)!! Just left us to DIE!! Ohh the inhumanity!

isnt an instructor suppose to watch you when you are doing a new checout dive and you are his STUDENT? Is there any responsibility?

You seem to believe that having an instructor with you takes all the responsibility off YOU. It does NOT. Let's reverse this... why were YOU not with the instructor? They have many students to deal with, and in this case all certified divers. How exactly does an instructor stay with a group of people who may not stay together?

If you want close supervision when diving with an instructor, my suggestion is that you tell your buddy before the dive that you plan on shadowing the instructor, and expect them to do the same. Then once down... STAY with the instructor.

Also, what exactly was the instructor suppose to do when you suddenly added a bunch of air to your BCD at 90', and rocketed to the surface?

I think you need to start taking more responsibility for your diving, and actions. It's NOT the instructors life on the line, but yours. Trust Me dives are never a good idea.

 

[DandyDon]

For those just joining us....

Welcome to another edition of "Cross Fire"​

 

[LJinFLA]

For those just joining us....

Welcome to another edition of "Cross Fire"​

Don,

LOL!!!!! You are too funny! Thanks for keeping this light....

LJ

 

[waynne fowler]

Hi Waynne:

Best first post I think I've ever seen.

Welcome (errr kinda, Feb 2002)

What is they say "better late....":05:
I usually just pop in to lurk:14: but somehow this just struck a cord with me.

Thanks Steve

 

[pilot fish]

Let's not all gang up on Case because there seems to be 3 versions here, his, the other posters's and the instructors. We don't know which one is accurate, really. I'm curious why Case thinks he has experience with 12 dives in 6 years though? Why would an instructor take a diver to the Grove not current and with that little experience?

Two things I see as bad for Case, leaving his buddy, not staying close, and inflating the BC to surge to the surface. Two things I see as bad for the instructor, not telling him to stay close in order to observe him and taking him to the Grove in the first place. Why no French reef to obseve his skills?

 

[dkktsunami]

You might be arguing with the south end of a north-bound mule.

 

[pilot fish]

You might be arguing with the south end of a north-bound mule.

yup, but who's dern mule is it?

 

[DandyDon]

Let me highlight a couple of points here, striving for clarification of facts...

Let's not all gang up on Case because there seems to be 3 versions here, his, the other posters's and the instructors. We don't know which one is accurate, really. I'm curious why Case thinks he has experience with 12 dives in 6 years though? Why would an instructor take a diver to the Grove not current and with that little experience?

Two things I see as bad for Case, leaving his buddy, not staying close, and inflating the BC to surge to the surface. Two things I see as bad for the instructor, not telling him to stay close in order to observe him and taking him to the Grove in the first place. Why no French reef to obseve his skills?

He did post in his second that he has had 25 dive, and while I agree that's still pretty green, he dived to 105 feet last month...

I was taking my advanced wreck dive using nitrox when this occured. The current was not bad but visibility was 10-12. Ironically, I have dived 105 before using air in Hawaii about 1 month ago and had no problems. The buddy that i had was taking the course as well and i didnt know him well, this guy thinks hes going to be a dm in the first 3 months. Ive been diving for 6 years and have logged about 25 dives but I mostly did in the Carribean. What scared me was that there were 3 DMS around us and nonone saw me rise. I've never felt so umcomfortable or scared in my life.

And may I suggest that insults are not productive here...

You might be arguing with the south end of a north-bound mule.