R
redacted
Guest
It protects against metal to metal friction which may cause bad things with such low torque (35 in-lb) on the swivel retainer. If you can't find one, let me know. I'm sure I have one someplace.
SP MK 10 PLUS: please help ID
- Thread starter Zung
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scubafanatic
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akscubaduck1
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Hello Zung,
PM, me I've got all the parts you need.
I keep a small stock of parts for my MK 10.
Ya, ditch the MK10+ parts. Downgrade to a MK 10 a much more stable 1st stage.
Terry
PM, me I've got all the parts you need.
I keep a small stock of parts for my MK 10.
Ya, ditch the MK10+ parts. Downgrade to a MK 10 a much more stable 1st stage.
Terry
OP
Zung
Contributor
akscubaduck1:
PM sent, thank you for the offer.
scubafanatic:
Quote
"I'm just impressed at your apparent high level of technical knowledge"
Thank you on behalf of the US: awap, couv, DA Aquamaster, Luis H, mattboy et al. What I know I learned form them, still learning...
"... yet you don't own even ONE scuba tank ???"
I didn't do any local diving, so it hasn't been a problem until last summer when both kids got certified, and I did my very 1st dive in the Lake of Geneva, and I added up the cost of annual service of 4 complete sets plus 1 spare, and I discovered the wealth of this board...
Now I feel the pain and may take the plunge
PM sent, thank you for the offer.
scubafanatic:
Quote
"I'm just impressed at your apparent high level of technical knowledge"
Thank you on behalf of the US: awap, couv, DA Aquamaster, Luis H, mattboy et al. What I know I learned form them, still learning...
"... yet you don't own even ONE scuba tank ???"
I didn't do any local diving, so it hasn't been a problem until last summer when both kids got certified, and I did my very 1st dive in the Lake of Geneva, and I added up the cost of annual service of 4 complete sets plus 1 spare, and I discovered the wealth of this board...
Now I feel the pain and may take the plunge
OP
Zung
Contributor
I borrowed a tank from the guy who owns a dive club just across the street (respective wifes are close friends), so here are some numbers, same gauge, same tank, pressure ranges from 3000 PSI to 2500 PSI:
Good news:
So-so news:
Bad news:
So all of the Mk10 Plus have very high IP, and take a very long time to stabilize after a purge (the needle swings slowly to its final position, but the motion is pretty linear and smooth; is this what you mean by "mushy lock up?).
I talked to a MDS (Medium Dive Shop, 300 miles), the guy asked the usual questions (IP gauge verified with the Mk20's, original SP kit, Duro 90 010 o-ring at the stem...), and came to the conclusion that he's at lost and suggested that I leave things as they are, since the Mk10P/M5 I bought from new for my wife and has 3-400 dives in it, and she never complained.
What should I do?
Downgrade? (I'd love to, haven't heard from akscubaduck1 yet)
Live with it? (would I die?)
Give up diving?
Good news:
- Mk20/G250 #1: 130 PSI, drop 10 PSI when purged, recovery is instantanous, no creep
- Mk5/R109: 130 PSI, drop 20 PSI when purged, recovery is instantanous, no creep
So-so news:
- Mk20/G250 #2: 135 PSI. drop 20 PSI when purged, recovery is 20", no creep
Bad news:
- Mk10Plus/G250 #2: 140 PSI, drop 20 PSI when purged, recovery is 30", no further creep after recovery, serviced by LDS, 30 dives since last service
- Mk10Plus/M5: 145 PSI, drop 30 PSI when purged, recovery is 50", no further creep after recovery, serviced by LDS, 30 dives since last service
- Mk10Plus/G250 #1: 160 PSI, this ones hasn't settled in yet, I just finished servicing it, replaced everything (kit + all o-rings), no shim
So all of the Mk10 Plus have very high IP, and take a very long time to stabilize after a purge (the needle swings slowly to its final position, but the motion is pretty linear and smooth; is this what you mean by "mushy lock up?).
I talked to a MDS (Medium Dive Shop, 300 miles), the guy asked the usual questions (IP gauge verified with the Mk20's, original SP kit, Duro 90 010 o-ring at the stem...), and came to the conclusion that he's at lost and suggested that I leave things as they are, since the Mk10P/M5 I bought from new for my wife and has 3-400 dives in it, and she never complained.
What should I do?
Downgrade? (I'd love to, haven't heard from akscubaduck1 yet)
Live with it? (would I die?)
Give up diving?
Most of the recovery should be very fast, but then the IP swing will not stop like the other knife edged regs but will instead slowly lock up.
I don't have the specs in front of me at the moment (I am in St. Paul MN for a week) But if I recall, about 5 psi of creep in the first few seconds is normal with a few more PSI of creep over the next minute or so being acceptable. But it needs to lock up eventualy and do it at or below 145 psi.
In my experience, the Mk 10 Plus seat life is a bit shorter than the Mk 10 or the Mk 20/25. Also the pistons seem to be in need of replacement more often than with a Mk 10 - which is to say piston replacement in a Mk 10 is almost never needed, while in the Mk 10 Plus it is more common and is often the only solution for a reg that will not lock up.
I don't have the specs in front of me at the moment (I am in St. Paul MN for a week) But if I recall, about 5 psi of creep in the first few seconds is normal with a few more PSI of creep over the next minute or so being acceptable. But it needs to lock up eventualy and do it at or below 145 psi.
In my experience, the Mk 10 Plus seat life is a bit shorter than the Mk 10 or the Mk 20/25. Also the pistons seem to be in need of replacement more often than with a Mk 10 - which is to say piston replacement in a Mk 10 is almost never needed, while in the Mk 10 Plus it is more common and is often the only solution for a reg that will not lock up.
OP
Zung
Contributor
Thanks DA.
I gather I could live with this until downgrade time.
Just out of curiosity, with the 10 Plus, SP added a "Spring Centering Washer" between the spring and the body of the reg, and an "Isolating Bushing" between the spring and the piston head. These items are about .04 inch thick and compress the spring somewhat more than the "non-Plus". I asked the MDS if it's OK to remove the washer to try to lower the IP, and he told me to leave it alone. Is he right? They are not there with the non-Plus to start with.
I gather I could live with this until downgrade time.
Just out of curiosity, with the 10 Plus, SP added a "Spring Centering Washer" between the spring and the body of the reg, and an "Isolating Bushing" between the spring and the piston head. These items are about .04 inch thick and compress the spring somewhat more than the "non-Plus". I asked the MDS if it's OK to remove the washer to try to lower the IP, and he told me to leave it alone. Is he right? They are not there with the non-Plus to start with.
R
redacted
Guest
Something is seriously amiss with the last one, Mk10+/G250 #1: that 160 IP will likely go higher as it settles in. Make sure the seat retainer is tight and you may want to remove any shims between the seat retainer and the body and see if that helps. With and IP of 160 it may very well not be locking up at all but relieving through a 2nd stage.
I have one MK10+ schematic that shows the centering washer and the TIS bushing with the same spring (01.020.217) as is used in the Mk10 and another that shows a different spring (01.020.227). Could this be a problem? I'd be tempted to expweriment a little and eliminate first the TIS washer and then the centering bushing and see if that makes the IP behave.
I have one MK10+ schematic that shows the centering washer and the TIS bushing with the same spring (01.020.217) as is used in the Mk10 and another that shows a different spring (01.020.227). Could this be a problem? I'd be tempted to expweriment a little and eliminate first the TIS washer and then the centering bushing and see if that makes the IP behave.
OP
Zung
Contributor
I've already removed all the shims. The spring should be the same, since the Plus was also available as a retrofit/upgrade with only the piston, the seat retainer and the seat.
I tried to remove the TIS to relube it as per the SP guide, but it opposed a very solid resistance. I'll try to remove the washer tomorrow; the MDS said something about protection against metal to metal contact between the spring and the body, but it wasn't ther with the non-Plus, and nobody complained.
Unless we decide to go skiing
Why did I upgrade these guys 14 years ago? The Mk5 locks up sooooo much better!
I tried to remove the TIS to relube it as per the SP guide, but it opposed a very solid resistance. I'll try to remove the washer tomorrow; the MDS said something about protection against metal to metal contact between the spring and the body, but it wasn't ther with the non-Plus, and nobody complained.
Unless we decide to go skiing
Why did I upgrade these guys 14 years ago? The Mk5 locks up sooooo much better!
In a perfect world you would change out the spring for a softer one to lower the IP. But lacking another lighter spring, I have on occasion taken out the spring centering washer and just replaced it with a 5 psi shim in my own Mk 10 plusses.
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