Something's not right...

[H2Andy]

I'm still confused about the "open water" description.

open water simply means that you can, at any point, immediately ascend to the surface.

it's opposite is "overhead," in which case you are diving
with something over your head which prevents an
immediate ascent to the surface (either 'cause you're
inside a cave or a wreck).

also, open water is understood to mean "no decompression"
diving, as a mandatory deco stop acts as a virtual
overhead (meaning you can't go right up to the surface
without serious consequences). of course, all dives are
really deco dives, since a slow ascent is a rolling deco stop.
but so long as you stay within your NDL's, you're in open
water territory.

 

[dweeb]

Do you ever drive the recommended speed??? .

Depends... Who's doing the recommending?
Around here, no one is, and the local revenue enhancement, er, traffic safety, personnel get very annoyed if you refer to the number on the sign as a mere "recommendation."

 

[dweeb]

Anybody who has dove various parts of the world knows that you can exceed those limits on a Discover Scuba dive. A now certified buddy of mine went to 90 ft in Cozumel last year before he ever started OW. I have seen it myself below sixty ft several times.

Its just a recommendation not the law in most cases. Wait until you have been diving longer. You will see a lot more than that.

Actually, in the cases you cite, it is the 'law' - it's a contractual requirement for the certified professional, and grounds for revoking their credentials.

 

[dweeb]

We felt very comfortable exceeding our 60 ft limits as we had a dive guide/instructor with us.

In other words, a "trust me" dive. What did you know about the guide? Specifically, what did you know about the him that led you to believe he could save you from your own lack of skill/experience in all likely scenarios? Do you have any clue how fast a panicked diver can kill themselves and what sort of reflexes/speed one must have to successfully intervene? Did you know that your guide could very well have only 60 dives, and could have just started learning to dive a few months earlier?

 

[dweeb]

I'm still confused about the "open water" description. The majority of diving I do is in abandoned iron ore mine pits. The depth is up to 300ft deep. We stay around the edge and almost never go below 60ft deep,(almost never). This dosn't qualify as an, "open water" dive? I was under the impression that "open water" meant an unsupervised, outdoor dive. Now it sounds like you need to get on a boat and head out in the ocean before it's an "open water" dive?? Please explain.

This is an open water dive. Open water is anyplace that doesn't qualify as confined water. Confined water is defined as a pool or someplace that approximates the physical conditions of a pool.

 

[dweeb]

open water simply means that you can, at any point, immediately ascend to the surface.

it's opposite is "overhead," in which case you are diving
with something over your head which prevents an
immediate ascent to the surface (either 'cause you're
inside a cave or a wreck).

also, open water is understood to mean "no decompression"
diving, as a mandatory deco stop acts as a virtual
overhead (meaning you can't go right up to the surface
without serious consequences). of course, all dives are
really deco dives, since a slow ascent is a rolling deco stop.
but so long as you stay within your NDL's, you're in open
water territory.

WRONG, WRONG, and WRONG.

Open water can be an overhead environment, and it can be a decompression dive. It can be a cave, or anyplace else that does not meet RSTC standards for confined water. Confined water is a pool, or place that approximates pool conditions with respect to wave action, weather, temperature, visibility, depth, and bottom composition/topography.

Andy, I repeat my original recommendation from the "water as weight" thread, to go and review your OW textbook, especially before issuing authoritative answers to anything.

 

[cal2632]

In other words, a "trust me" dive. What did you know about the guide? Specifically, what did you know about the him that led you to believe he could save you from your own lack of skill/experience in all likely scenarios? Do you have any clue how fast a panicked diver can kill themselves and what sort of reflexes/speed one must have to successfully intervene? Did you know that your guide could very well have only 60 dives, and could have just started learning to dive a few months earlier?

I do know that our guide was a certified instructor. I also know that experience is no guarantee that a diver won't panic and 'kill themselves'. I certainly don't think I'm any safer at 60 ft with only my newly certified buddy to help than I was at 72 ft with our guide.

Mona

 

[dweeb]

As a scuba instructor I see all to often these following things happening.
People want to be scuba diving but don't want to take the time to learn how to be responsible for themselves.

"Today's consumer wants instant gratification, and we deliver it."

-PADI marketing director.

 

[H2Andy]

says Dweeb, master of all things diving:

Open water can be an overhead environment, and it can be a decompression dive. It can be a cave, or anyplace else that does not meet RSTC standards for confined water. Confined water is a pool, or place that approximates pool conditions with respect to wave action, weather, temperature, visibility, depth, and bottom composition/topography.

actually, dweeb, i don't know any agency who calls a cave dive an "open water" dive.

nor a wreck dive has ever been defined as an "open water dive"

and gee... i don't know of any decompression dive that is considered open water.

when you get your Open Water c-card, you are certified to dive in open water
(i.e. no overhead and no deco) and no more.

get a life, dude

 

[dweeb]

I do know that our guide was a certified instructor.

Why do you think there are instructors referred to as "90-day wonders?"

I've seen instructors I wouldn't buddy with if you paid me.
In a class, you get a chance to see what an instructor is all about before you get to any significant risk. In a supervision situation, you don't.

I also know that experience is no guarantee that a diver won't panic and 'kill themselves'.

Competence, verified by a rigorous training process, is a pretty good indicator. Experience builds competence, too.

I certainly don't think I'm any safer at 60 ft with only my newly certified buddy to help than I was at 72 ft with our guide.

Was 60 feet your deepest previous dive?
Forget the magic number, what was the depth increment from your previous experience. The recommendations should read, 60 ft. or no more than 2o% beyond your previous max depth.

If you placed more trust and reliance in that guide than you would in your newly certified buddy, then you were less safe. Safety is inversely proportional to dependence. Any time your safety is dependent on someone else, more than on yourself, you are in a bad situation.