Solo diving, or not, from the Explorer Ventures Turks & Caicos Explorer II

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

So the card says you are certified to dive alone? If it does, send me a copy and I will forward it up the chain.
I will concede that one to you. The card, like a few PADI cards, says “This diver has satisfactorily met the standards for this certification level as set forth by PADI. No mention on the card. My response to you was regarding your statement that the self reliant course doesn’t say that you can dive alone.
Now, since the card says “met the standards for this certification”, and one of the standards is to teach you how to “dive alone responsibly”, I would have never thought there would be a problem.
All that being said, the only reason I took the course was to put my wife at ease when I started diving by myself locally. There is a strong possibility I will never need to show my card to anyone.
 
So the card says you are certified to dive alone? If it does, send me a copy and I will forward it up the chain.

No it mentions you met the course standards just like every other PADI card. I assume your insurance agency allows you to accept the PADI Nitrox card? If so it doesn't say you can use nitrox, it simply says that you meet the standards for the PADI and ISO. You reference the standards to see what that certifies a diver to.

Insurance not accepting the PADI Self Reliant card would be like not accepting SDI Advanced Adventurer for dives that require AOW because SDI's card doesn't say Advanced Open Water. We allow equivalency for almost all non-pro certs, you should be able to send the standards up the chain and point that out.

ETA: So I went through my various cards which include PADI, SSI, IANTD, NSS-CDS, and TDI. TDI is the only agency that makes any attempt to spell out standards on their cards. Everyone else says something to the effect of "Diver has been certified to the standards of XXX" adding in ISO number if the course has one.
 
Interesting. I guess I'm not too surprised. Insurance companies can be quite literal.

On a personal note, this is one of the key reasons I took the SDI course. I wanted a course that resulted in a cert that was unambiguous. I solo dive frequently and I wanted a card that said, "Solo Diver", not the two faced politispeak PADI went with for their cert.

+1 I went through the identical process when I decided to take the SDI course. Given that classes and instructors from both agencies were readily available in central Florida, the choice was clear for exactly the same reason.
Make me the third. I took the SDI course in 2013. I was biased toward the certification called Solo Diver and it was very simple to take the course from JDC on one of my visits to SE FL.

I have been interested in the topic of acceptance of solo diving courses and posted this thread and poll to gather a little more information What solo cert do you have, has it ever been turned down? All the caveats apply to this poll, just like others on SB. In the poll, there were somewhat more divers with the SDI than the PADI certification but the turn down rates were extremely similar.
 
I have never maintained their equivalency, nor did I ever accept a self-reliant card on Spree as indication that the diver is qualified or certified to dive solo.

I have never believed that the PADI self reliant course is a solo diver course, and when I was a PADI instructor, it was made very clear to me that PADI did not and would not ever condone solo diving, and that the self-reliance was not to be confused with buddyless diving.

Which is why I became a SDI instructor. And you were able to take the course from me.

Maybe most divers.

Not most operators.

Especially the ones who were insured by someone other than V&B....
Thanks Frank, very interesting and useful information that many of us have not heard before. And, thanks @Tracy

Back in 2015, when I was going to do the FL Wreck Trek with you on the Spree, I had arranged with you to dive solo. I'm sure I told you I was SDI certified, but never thought twice about it. You did not know me personally at that time, but Pete, @The Chairman might have vouched for me as I had dived with him in Boynton Beach. Fortunately, my son was able to join me, and we both had a fantastic time diving 7 of the Keys wrecks with you.
 
Thanks Frank, very interesting and useful information that many of us have not heard before. And, thanks @Tracy

Back in 2015, when I was going to do the FL Wreck Trek with you on the Spree, I had arranged with you to dive solo. I'm sure I told you I was SDI certified, but never thought twice about it. You did not know me personally at that time, but Pete, @The Chairman might have vouched for me as I had dived with him in Boynton Beach. Fortunately, my son was able to join me, and we both had a fantastic time diving 7 of the Keys wrecks with you.
I thought I was your SDI Solo course instructor.

My apologies.
 
I've followed the SB threads looking for issues and this is the first I've seen confirmed (other than a quarry someplace that wasn't relevant to me). I'm especially surprised by Wookie's post...I hadn't noticed him chime in before (at least not so adamantly that I noticed given the length and verbosity of some of the threads...kind of like this post :)). I just checked (again) the course requirements to see if something has changed. The descriptions and pre-requisites still look virtually identical. The main thing I noticed was 18 yrs for PADI and 21 yrs for SDI. I'm not sure if that's new.
So, I went and looked at PADIs Self Sufficiency diver advertising blurb online, and they have indeed softened their stance over the years.

Because this is what Drew Richardson put in writing....

Solo Diving: PADI Worldwide's Position
By:
Drew Richardson Senior Vice-President, Training, Education, Environment and Memberships, PADI Worldwide


Why PADI advocates the use of the buddy system

The buddy system in use today for scuba diving came from a decades old water safety concept found in swimming and lifeguard training. It was adopted because it applied to diving and because it made good safety sense. Early support of buddy diving safety procedures was referenced by Jacques Cousteau and the crew of the Calypso in the book "The Silent World". The goals of training divers include developing the skills to take responsibility for themselves and to be self-reliant. The buddy system provides divers in training with a safety redundancy to this skill base that diving alone simply cannot provide. PADI has, and will continue to, train divers using the buddy system based on its proven benefit to diving, divers and diving safety.

Practicality & Convenience

The buddy system has provided tangible contributions to millions of dives. Buddies provide an extra set of eyes and hands for each other. Providing assistance in putting on equipment, adjusting straps, assisting with weights and tanks, entering the water, helping to load and unload gear are but a few practical arguments that support the buddy system.

Safety:

The roots of the buddy system arise from diving and water safety. Early days of diver training heralded the buddy system as an important safety procedure because only through the buddy system could a diver reasonably expect to escape from entanglement, entrapment, out of air situations, disorientation, a head injury, chest pains, cramping and dozens more. Diver training and diving equipment have improved, yet these same values apply today. Like all safety-based systems, the buddy system is not perfect. However, the simple fact is that without a buddy in the water, the distressed diver has little or no chance of assistance.

The buddy system is the most basic form of scuba diving fail-safe. Buddies have helped each other in subtle and profound ways for decades. Often the smallest buddy intervention averts a string of error chains occurred and negative outcomes or tragedy. The safety record of scuba diving has improved dramatically over the past few decades, while the number of certified divers has increased. During this time, buddy system training techniques have been an integral component of this training. While there is no way to quantify the accidents that were prevented or did not happen because of one buddy looking after another, empirical outcomes support the relevancy and integrity of this training.

Enjoyment:

Diving is a social activity, so the buddy system is more than a safety rule. Diving with someone you know and are comfortable with adds to the fun. Most divers actually enjoy companionship in and out of the water. It is fun to share exciting adventures and experiences with others. Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types.

Can Solo Diving be done responsibly?

Yes, but let's be clear about what responsible solo diving is and what it is not. It requires experienced scuba divers willing to make the necessary commitment to train and equip themselves to accept the added risks involved. That is to say, a person with the required attitude and aptitude to pursue responsible solo diving. This is true in other adventure sport activities such as solo rock climbing.

It is important to clarify what responsible solo scuba diving is. PADI views it as a form of technical diving and not for everybody. To responsibly engage in solo scuba diving, a diver must first be highly experienced, have a hundred or so buddy accompanied scuba dives, be absolutely self-reliant and apply the specialized procedures and equipment needed to engage in the activity. (Emphasis Mine) This includes, but is not limited to redundant air sources, specialized equipment configurations, specific dive planning, and management of solo diving problems and emergencies. When solo diving is performed within this description, we see a place for it. Responsible solo diving is not diving alone without the mental discipline, attitude or equipment. That said, no amount of redundant equipment can effectively back up a diver's brain better than another individual.

What concerns does PADI have with regard to solo diving

When a problem occurs on a solo dive, or when the diver is alone in the water, there is little or no chance of assistance for the distressed diver. This decreases the chances of a diver surviving the problem or having a favorable outcome. Diving alone reduces the chance of survival regardless of the problem. Since 1989, there were at least 538 fatalities where it was clear divers were either intentionally diving solo, or became separated from a buddy and were de facto alone.

PADI is concerned by certain proponents of solo diving within the dive industry, including a major diving publication, who attempt to promote solo diving by bashing both PADI and the buddy system with headlines touting " Why the Buddy System is dangerous". This is both irresponsible and reckless. To suggest that the buddy system fosters a false sense of security and increases the likelihood of panic is outrageous and contrary to the empirical evidence. To claim that divers shouldn't use the buddy system for fear of being sued by a diving companion is ridiculous. The unfortunate reality in the litigious U.S. is that folks have sued one another for nearly anything. It is no surprise that there have been a handful of cases where one buddy has brought suit against another. Outside of the U.S., this argument doesn't hold up and smacks of the fear mongering to sell magazines. Besides, how long will it be before a solo death results in a suit against a magazine or other forum endorsing solo diving, a practice that is contrary to community practice. There is nothing to prevent such lawsuits from arising.

PADI's position is clear; solo diving proponents should advocate responsible solo diving on its own unique merits, requisite training, and equipment needs and not through sensationalized attempts to disparage a proven safety system, that has served the majority of recreational scuba divers well.

So what the orange bit says to me as an operator is that you really should have self-reliant skills before you take the (technical) Solo Diver class.
 
So what the orange bit says to me as an operator is that you really should have self-reliant skills before you take the (technical) Solo Diver class.
I agree and support any ops choice not to allow solo based on their own criteria…their boat, their rules. That said, if it is allowed based on cert then equivalent training standards should equal equivalent access (like happens with other certs) regardless of wether or not it’s the “preferred” style of diving by the certifying agency. If there are significant differences in the training or pre-requisites that’s an issue, but if it’s about the name of the course/cert, that seems a bit absurd. Though, we currently seem to live in a world that if you can’t put it on a bumper sticker, it must not be true.

@Wookie, thanks for your post and input. I appreciate it. 😊
 
I agree and support any ops choice not to allow solo based on their own criteria…their boat, their rules. That said, if it is allowed it based on cert then equivalent training standards should equal equivalent access (like happens with other certs) regardless of wether or not it’s the “preferred” style of diving by the certifying agency. If there are significant differences in the training or pre-requisites that’s an issue, but if it’s about the name of the course/cert, that seems a bit absurd. Though, we currently seem to live in a world that if you can’t put it on a bumper sticker, it must not be true.

@Wookie, thanks for your post and input. I appreciate it. 😊
I'd have to look at the course standards to know if Self Reliant and Solo are equivalent. Sadly, I have no access to either anymore.
 
@Wookie

"...Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types..." I'm surprised PADI knows me :)

SDI Solo Diver, PADI Self-Reliant Diver, and SSI Independent Diver are all within the recreational teaching frame. I'm surprised by the PADI statement that they view solo diving as a form of technical diving.

Thanks for the information you supplied
 
@Wookie

"...Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types..." I'm surprised PADI knows me :)

SDI Solo Diver, PADI Self-Reliant Diver, and SSI Independent Diver are all within the recreational teaching frame. I'm surprised by the PADI statement that they view solo diving as a form of technical diving.

Thanks for the information you supplied
Remember, that was written after the Solo course came out, and the Self Reliant Diver course was never going to happen. I remember a talk Drew gave at a DEMA where he said that PADI would never have a solo diver course.

And they don't.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom