Solo diving, or not, from the Explorer Ventures Turks & Caicos Explorer II

[Divin'Papaw]

It's funny that PADI considers solo diving a form of technical diving when most technical agencies, possibly all, strongly frown upon solo tech diving. The dog is chasing its tail.

Solo diving is a form of diving that requires solid experience, specialized training, the right mindset, and redundancy with respect to critical systems. But it is not technical diving. It is merely a specialized form of recreational diving just like deep, cavern, ice, low viz, altitude, etc.

 

[drrich2]

nor did he say how the PADI course addressed the issue of spare air.

Thank you for coming on ScubaBoard and providing us your perspective. In many discussions we don't get to hear 'the rest of the story' from 1st hand sources, and it's good to get your take.

Oh, you said 'spare air.' Did he have the branded product Spare Air, or did you mean redundant gas supply in general?

I have never maintained their equivalency

Putting aside the name and marketing, in terms of the knowledge and skill that are expected to be confirmed to get the certifications, do you think they are equivalent, or not?

I get that naming and marketing matter; I took the SDI Solo Diver course, and from what I've read on SB in the past it sounded like PADI Self-reliant Diver was practically the same only no manual.

and when I was a PADI instructor, it was made very clear to me

By who, PADI? I ask because it'd be interesting if a PADI staffer indicated the Self-reliant Diver cert. wasn't a solo cert.

I would think insurance companies and especially "scuba providers" would take at least a nuanced enough look to at least review the training information before passing blanket judgements. If there are differences/shortcomings with the PADI cert compared to the other cert agencies, they should be corrected. It shouldn't be about the name on the card whether it's solo, advanced, or whatever...it should be about the training.

I agree that's how it should be in a fair world, but in the insurance companies' defense (something I seldom say), can one count on a jury to master the nuances and exercise appropriate judgment, given probably none are divers and a red-faced sobbing widow may be in sight?

Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types.

Disclaimer: that statement was made by Drew Richardson, not Wookie.

Is it just me or does it sound like he was implying solo divers are misanthropes?

P.S.: I wonder just how threatened PADI felt by divers leaving the PADI system to take the SDI Solo Diver course? If it was enough to move them to offer the Self-reliant Diver course after their anti-solo history, I'm guessing there were some interesting conversations behind-the-scenes.

 

[tursiops]

I'd have to look at the course standards to know if Self Reliant and Solo are equivalent. Sadly, I have no access to either anymore.

They are. Differences are minor. If anything, the PADI course has more in it, including an additional dive.

 

[Wookie]

By who, PADI? I ask because it'd be interesting if a PADI staffer indicated the Self-reliant Diver cert. wasn't a solo cert.

Yes. Drew was at a DEMA maybe in 2011 or 2012 and stated unequically that PADI did not endorse solo diving and never would.

When SDI came out with the Solo Diver course, PADI held off for about 2 years before introducing the Self Reliant diver course. I was a SDI solo instructor by then, and called training to inquire whether PADI considered Self Reliant to be a Solo course. I was told by Training (yes, I have the person's name, I dealt with only one person in PADI training) that Self-Reliant Diver was not a solo course, it was meant to give the diver confidence so that in the event of buddy separation, a self reliant diver could continue the dive and re-establish their buddy. Fair enough.

Again, the marketing has changed since the mid teens, and the blog says "prepare to dive solo" all over it, so PADI has obviously softened their stance.

I am old enough to remember "voodoo gas" as well.

 

[drrich2]

When SDI came out with the Solo Diver course, PADI held off for about 2 years before introducing the Self Reliant diver course. I was a SDI solo instructor by then

That's an interesting angle. I focused on how many divers like me who'd historically been PADI course takers took the SDI Solo Diver course, but you bring up a another issue. How many PADI instructors acquired SDI credentials so they could teach a solo diver course?

I imagine every time a student or instructor 'shops' at another dive training agency, it's an opportunity for a competitor to win them over.

 

[tursiops]

When SDI came out with the Solo Diver course, PADI held off for about 2 years before introducing the Self Reliant diver course.

SDI's Solo came out about 2000. I took it in 2001. PADI introduced Self-Reliant in 2011.

 

[Wookie]

SDI's Solo came out about 2000. I took it in 2001. PADI introduced Self-Reliant in 2011.

Correct.

Mike Ball actually was the first operator to come up with a course in 1997.

SDI mainstreamed it in 1998, I remember quite clearly that Bret Gilliam was still with SDI/TDI

PADI was some time after that..... Deeper Blue has this quote

"PADI at a later date replied with their Self-Reliant Diver course. This is what they say about the program:

“Although most scuba dives are made with a buddy, an experienced diver may want or need to make dives without a partner. During the Self-Reliant Diver course, you learn about potential risks of diving alone and the value of equipment redundancy and necessary back-up gear. During three scuba dives, you develop skills for self-reliance and independence, while becoming a stronger partner in a dive pair or team.”

So PADI sounds like a politician, They offer a “solo” dive certification but say it “true” purpose is to become a better dive buddy."

Solo Diving Certification, Is It In Your Future? - DeeperBlue.com

If you listen to the major training agencies, solo diving is pure evil and just a step away from suicide. Well, that might not be exactly what they say but

www.deeperblue.com

 

[Tracy]

I understand the TCEX2 captain's concern and I'm a fan of their boat (though I never attempted to solo from it). Sounds like the diver in question was a hazard, but I don't understand the policy of disallowing the PADI cert as a matter of course. That diver clearly wasn't following the training associated with the course, but I'm sure you can find examples of that kind of behavior relative to any certification. Also tossing it to the insurance company seems like the same ploy as some of the AOW exceptions we've seen crop up lately.

I get that scuba diving isn't the most popular pastime, but I would think insurance companies and especially "scuba providers" would take at least a nuanced enough look to at least review the training information before passing blanket judgements. If there are differences/shortcomings with the PADI cert compared to the other cert agencies, they should be corrected. It shouldn't be about the name on the card whether it's solo, advanced, or whatever...it should be about the training. I have no doubt that my "solo" instructor was training me to dive solo.

To the best of my knowledge, their is ONE underwriter for dive boats left that will accept new customers. There were three last year.
Their verbiage is very clear. "Operator will insure the diver is certified for the dive taking place." The SDI card is the only one I have seen that says it allows solo diving. It isn't a cop out by the boats, it is a last ditch effort to stay running. I haven't taught an AOW in years and I don't teach the solo course.

 

[Subcooled]

“We offer the SDI solo diving course.” That’s probably all you need to know to see why they don’t allow the PADI course.

It also shows that certifications mean nothing but money to them.
This puts in question their training. Is it for the safety of the diver or only for profit?

 

[Subcooled]

Thank you for your email. At this time, the PADI course isn’t recognized by the vessel insurance carrier as a qualifying certification.

Is this because of a lacking certification? The self reliant diver course does not comply with some I$O standard?