Solo diving, or not, from the Explorer Ventures Turks & Caicos Explorer II

[tursiops]

Is it for the safety of the diver or only for profit?

False dichotomy; it is so they can keep their insurance.

 

[bradlw]

Interesting...I was just about to ask when they started offering these "certs". Quite a wide gap of time between SDI and PADI. Any idea when SSI offered their version?
Do any other agencies offer it?

to the discussion about what the card says..."does it say you are certified to dive alone?"
to that question I say that NONE of my certification cards define any limits or descriptions at all beyond just the most generalized title

Open Water Diver doesn't define depths or anything else​

Advanced OW Diver doesn't define anything either​

Nitrox Diver doesn't define any max PO2's or anything else​

nor does ADVANCED Nitrox Diver​

ditto Deep Air, Technical Diver, Trimix Diver...no depth limitations, no gas blend limitations....nothing​

and this idea of "what am I certified to do?" has puzzled me forever with diving. It's stated as if there is some define standard that is a hard limit.

The little bit of language today that I have read in standards seems to imply that agencies are trying to take that authority upon themselves to draw that line in ink....​

but as far as I can tell THAT is a stretch beyond their lane.
It's really no different now than it was back when I was trained initially. My OW C card enabled me to get air fills and prove to anyone that cared that I was a trained diver.
My training (and common sense) encouraged me to stay within no deco limits.... and also to stay somewhat shallow early on.... but there's no restriction to not go right down to 130Ft or even deeper if I wanted to. And as far as I recall anyway no real reason I couldn't study up on decompression diving, practice till I'm satisfied, and start doing that on my own too....in fact how to read the US Navy deco table was covered to some degree for open water diver if I recall correctly.

Now what an operator or insurance co. wants to require, that's a whole different thing

 

[bmag78]

Thank you for coming on ScubaBoard and providing us your perspective. In many discussions we don't get to hear 'the rest of the story' from 1st hand sources, and it's good to get your take.

Oh, you said 'spare air.' Did he have the branded product Spare Air, or did you mean redundant gas supply in general?

Putting aside the name and marketing, in terms of the knowledge and skill that are expected to be confirmed to get the certifications, do you think they are equivalent, or not?

I get that naming and marketing matter; I took the SDI Solo Diver course, and from what I've read on SB in the past it sounded like PADI Self-reliant Diver was practically the same only no manual.

By who, PADI? I ask because it'd be interesting if a PADI staffer indicated the Self-reliant Diver cert. wasn't a solo cert.

I agree that's how it should be in a fair world, but in the insurance companies' defense (something I seldom say), can one count on a jury to master the nuances and exercise appropriate judgment, given probably none are divers and a red-faced sobbing widow may be in sight?

Disclaimer: that statement was made by Drew Richardson, not Wookie.

Is it just me or does it sound like he was implying solo divers are misanthropes?

P.S.: I wonder just how threatened PADI felt by divers leaving the PADI system to take the SDI Solo Diver course? If it was enough to move them to offer the Self-reliant Diver course after their anti-solo history, I'm guessing there were some interesting conversations behind-the-scenes.

Pardon the confusion with the branded product. I was indeed referring to a redundant air supply.
Ultimately our decision to disallow the guest solo diving was up to the insurance.
There was , however , considerable ambiguity on PADI's position. Self-reliant and solo weren't always synonymous , but sometimes it was.

 

[BoltSnap]

Yes. Drew was at a DEMA maybe in 2011 or 2012 and stated unequically that PADI did not endorse solo diving and never would.

When SDI came out with the Solo Diver course, PADI held off for about 2 years before introducing the Self Reliant diver course. I was a SDI solo instructor by then, and called training to inquire whether PADI considered Self Reliant to be a Solo course. I was told by Training (yes, I have the person's name, I dealt with only one person in PADI training) that Self-Reliant Diver was not a solo course, it was meant to give the diver confidence so that in the event of buddy separation, a self reliant diver could continue the dive and re-establish their buddy. Fair enough.

Again, the marketing has changed since the mid teens, and the blog says "prepare to dive solo" all over it, so PADI has obviously softened their stance.

I am old enough to remember "voodoo gas" as well.

This reminds me of the PADI stance in regards to Nitrox way back then.

 

[Tracy]

I will concede that one to you. The card, like a few PADI cards, says “This diver has satisfactorily met the standards for this certification level as set forth by PADI. No mention on the card. My response to you was regarding your statement that the self reliant course doesn’t say that you can dive alone.
Now, since the card says “met the standards for this certification”, and one of the standards is to teach you how to “dive alone responsibly”, I would have never thought there would be a problem.
All that being said, the only reason I took the course was to put my wife at ease when I started diving by myself locally. There is a strong possibility I will never need to show my card to anyone.

Met what standards? How would I review them? Where does PADI publish their standards?
I'm not disagreeing they are the same course. I get it. It is the same as I would rather have qualified divers than certified divers, but without the card, it doesn't hold water should something happen.

 

[Tracy]

Insurance not accepting the PADI Self Reliant card would be like not accepting SDI Advanced Adventurer for dives that require AOW because SDI's card doesn't say Advanced Open Water. We allow equivalency for almost all non-pro certs, you should be able to send the standards up the chain and point that out.

It wouldn't be like that. It says they must be certified for the dives they are doing. It doesn't say what cert they accept.
It comes down to the operator and how they interpret that. If there is a gray area, you go on the side of caution.
It sucks, I know that. Five years ago I would argue it to my death. Now I am on the other side as the person with everything to lose. Perspective can change things for you.

 

[tursiops]

Is this because of a lacking certification? The self reliant diver course does not comply with some I$O standard?

There is no ISO standard for most specialty classes, including solo/self-reliant.

 

[scubadada]

...Is it just me or does it sound like he was implying solo divers are misanthropes?...

That's how it sounded to me. I don't really care, I was finished with my PADI training in 2005. I had been successfully solo diving for many years before I took the SDI Solo class in 2013, mainly to expand my ability to dive with operators who did not already know me, it worked out well.

 

[scubadada]

...I am old enough to remember "voodoo gas" as well.

I was nitrox certified by PADI in 2002. I took a hyperbaric unit operation course from Dick Rutkowski in 2005, boy did I hear the anti-nitrox stories.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

to the discussion about what the card says..."does it say you are certified to dive alone?"
to that question I say that NONE of my certification cards define any limits or descriptions at all beyond just the most generalized title

Open Water Diver doesn't define depths or anything else​

Advanced OW Diver doesn't define anything either​

Nitrox Diver doesn't define any max PO2's or anything else​

nor does ADVANCED Nitrox Diver​

ditto Deep Air, Technical Diver, Trimix Diver...no depth limitations, no gas blend limitations....nothing​

You must not be trained through TDI. Their tech cards all list the limitations of the certification. My normoxic trimix card states, right on the card, "qualified in trimix diving (helium based) with a 18% mixture or greater, use of nitrox/oxygen for deco/stage gases, to max depth of 200 ft/60 m". My advanced nitrox card states, right on the card, "qualified in the use of 22% to 100% oxygen". So some cards do in fact clearly state the extent of the certification right on the card. My solo card simply states, "has completed the course requirements for the rating of Solo Diver."