Solo diving, or not, from the Explorer Ventures Turks & Caicos Explorer II

[Tracy]

Rather than guessing, I communicated with Explorer Ventures:

Thank you for your email. At this time, the PADI course isn’t recognized by the vessel insurance carrier as a qualifying certification.

Ding Ding Ding.
Same thing on my boat. Everything is driven by the insurance companies.
They say you have to have a card for the dive you are doing. Period. If you want to solo dive, you need a card that says you can. The PADI self reliant diver course doesn't say you can dive alone. It just trains you on how to do it.

 

[RIHappyDiver]

Ding Ding Ding.
Same thing on my boat. Everything is driven by the insurance companies.
They say you have to have a card for the dive you are doing. Period. If you want to solo dive, you need a card that says you can. The PADI self reliant diver course doesn't say you can dive alone. It just trains you on how to do it.

Actually, from Section 2, II, 3, c of the PADI self reliant course material;
“You can dive alone responsibly, but you must be properly trained and equipped to do so, and accept the risks involved.”

That being said, and back to one of @drrich2’s points, PADI may have handicapped anyone they certified by being so opposed to solo for so long that the insurance companies are iffy about it. However, if Nitrox is any indicator, that should change at some point.

Erik

 

[scubadada]

The Undercurrent review I cited in post #1 is actually quite positive regarding the week off T&C. The issue of solo diving was in reasonable context. I would suggest, if you have access to Undercurrent, go and read the entire review, filed on January 21.

The comparison of SDI and PADI solo courses has been made many times on SB. I believe it is safe to say that most have concluded that the courses are generally equivalent. This is the first time I've heard that an insurance company appears to disagree.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Interesting. I guess I'm not too surprised. Insurance companies can be quite literal.

On a personal note, this is one of the key reasons I took the SDI course. I wanted a course that resulted in a cert that was unambiguous. I solo dive frequently and I wanted a card that said, "Solo Diver", not the two faced politispeak PADI went with for their cert.

 

[tursiops]

I was on the T&C Explorer II when they first offered the SDI solo course...in 2009. In fact, I trained their DMs to teach the course. The PADI course did not come along until 2011.

 

[Wookie]

I believe it is safe to say that most have concluded that the courses are generally equivalent. This is the first time I've heard that an insurance company appears to disagree.

I have never maintained their equivalency, nor did I ever accept a self-reliant card on Spree as indication that the diver is qualified or certified to dive solo.

I have never believed that the PADI self reliant course is a solo diver course, and when I was a PADI instructor, it was made very clear to me that PADI did not and would not ever condone solo diving, and that the self-reliance was not to be confused with buddyless diving.

Which is why I became a SDI instructor. And you were able to take the course from me.

 

[Wookie]

most have concluded

Maybe most divers.

Not most operators.

Especially the ones who were insured by someone other than V&B....

 

[Tracy]

Actually, from Section 2, II, 3, c of the PADI self reliant course material;
“You can dive alone responsibly, but you must be properly trained and equipped to do so, and accept the risks involved.”

So the card says you are certified to dive alone? If it does, send me a copy and I will forward it up the chain.

 

[DavidFL]

Interesting. I guess I'm not too surprised. Insurance companies can be quite literal.

On a personal note, this is one of the key reasons I took the SDI course. I wanted a course that resulted in a cert that was unambiguous. I solo dive frequently and I wanted a card that said, "Solo Diver", not the two faced politispeak PADI went with for their cert.

+1 I went through the identical process when I decided to take the SDI course. Given that classes and instructors from both agencies were readily available in central Florida, the choice was clear for exactly the same reason.

 

[AdivingBel]

Interesting...when I took the PADI self-reliant course several years ago it was taught from the SDI manual and I was told it was due to PADI not having rolled out their documentation (at least to that locale). Upon completion I was offered either card and I took the PADI mainly because the rest of my certs (OW, AOW, Nitrox) were with them. I've never had it turned down (if solo was allowed via ops policy) and it has come in handy when renting solo rigs (I didn't have to fend off 20 questions).

I've followed the SB threads looking for issues and this is the first I've seen confirmed (other than a quarry someplace that wasn't relevant to me). I'm especially surprised by Wookie's post...I hadn't noticed him chime in before (at least not so adamantly that I noticed given the length and verbosity of some of the threads...kind of like this post ). I just checked (again) the course requirements to see if something has changed. The descriptions and pre-requisites still look virtually identical. The main thing I noticed was 18 yrs for PADI and 21 yrs for SDI. I'm not sure if that's new.

I understand the TCEX2 captain's concern and I'm a fan of their boat (though I never attempted to solo from it). Sounds like the diver in question was a hazard, but I don't understand the policy of disallowing the PADI cert as a matter of course. That diver clearly wasn't following the training associated with the course, but I'm sure you can find examples of that kind of behavior relative to any certification. Also tossing it to the insurance company seems like the same ploy as some of the AOW exceptions we've seen crop up lately.

I get that scuba diving isn't the most popular pastime, but I would think insurance companies and especially "scuba providers" would take at least a nuanced enough look to at least review the training information before passing blanket judgements. If there are differences/shortcomings with the PADI cert compared to the other cert agencies, they should be corrected. It shouldn't be about the name on the card whether it's solo, advanced, or whatever...it should be about the training. I have no doubt that my "solo" instructor was training me to dive solo.

I'm glad to see these responses coming to light because through numerous threads, I haven't seen these kinds of responses from qualified posters (as opposed to "I heard somewhere"). All IMHO, YMMV.