Should a Divemaster speak up?

[Dhboner]

My son is a divemaster in training and helped out on an open-water certification weekend. One of the candidates looked like he had never been in a pool with scuba much less ready for an open-water check-out. He couldn't put his gear together properly (his tank fell out from the cam bands TWICE on the weekend). He flailed around in the water hitting the other students with his fins and arms, couldn't control his ascents and generally looked like the worst possible open-water candidate you could imagine. I watched him underwater from a distance on day 2 so I have first-hand knowledge of his troubles.

After day one I told my son that if this guy passed I would turn in my C-cards (he was THAT bad) and low and behold at the end of the day Sunday the instructor was shaking his hand and congratulating him...HE PASSED.

My son knows he should not have passed but deferred to the instructor...he was worried that she might give him a poor evaluation if he spoke up (he needs the instructors sign off on the courses he assists on).

We talked a lot about it and I think in the future he will speak up if he thinks a student passes an open-water check-out when their skillset suggests they need more training.

I'm curious to hear from more experienced divemasters and even instructors on this subject. Should a divemaster speak up if he/she thinks the instructor is "going through the motions" and passing everyone.

The store and certifying agency are irrelevant.

Bob

 

[Ann Marie]

I think so. But there are different ways to 'speak up'. As a DM, he could take the Instructor aside and say, "I noticed so and so is having some difficulty. Do you mind if I work with him on a one to one basis on our next dive?"

By doing that, he's bringing the lack of skill to attention (like 'hey, what's going on, why isn't he still in the pool' without actually saying that). He would also get to work with that student while still being under the supervision of the instructor.

If the DM is helping out in the pool and sees this happening, he could ask the Instructor if he minded if he helped out the student in perhaps a one on one pool session. If the Instructor agrees, then he could say to the student, hey it appeared that you were having a couple of issues (but be specific) would you like to meet at the pool with me on Wednesday?

If it's a major problem, I'd talk to the Instructor after the class and voice my concerns. That fails, you may want to go to the manger or owner of the DS.

 

[Garrobo]

It's actually none of the DMs business and he should keep his nose out of the instructor's face. He can always go home and kick the s*&^ out of his cat. I've seen some pretty lousy divers doing their first ocean dives but they all survived and over a period of time became proficient divers. When I got my C-card I was at a loss and didn't really know what to do so I hired an instructor for a few days and got some additional individual training off of Ft. Lauderdale. Cost me several hundred but money well spent.

 

[redacted]

It's not like he was getting a drivers license.

 

[fnfalman]

My son is a divemaster in training and helped out on an open-water certification weekend. One of the candidates looked like he had never been in a pool with scuba much less ready for an open-water check-out. He couldn't put his gear together properly (his tank fell out from the cam bands TWICE on the weekend). He flailed around in the water hitting the other students with his fins and arms, couldn't control his ascents and generally looked like the worst possible open-water candidate you could imagine. I watched him underwater from a distance on day 2 so I have first-hand knowledge of his troubles.

After day one I told my son that if this guy passed I would turn in my C-cards (he was THAT bad) and low and behold at the end of the day Sunday the instructor was shaking his hand and congratulating him...HE PASSED.

My son knows he should not have passed but deferred to the instructor...he was worried that she might give him a poor evaluation if he spoke up (he needs the instructors sign off on the courses he assists on).

We talked a lot about it and I think in the future he will speak up if he thinks a student passes an open-water check-out when their skillset suggests they need more training.

I'm curious to hear from more experienced divemasters and even instructors on this subject. Should a divemaster speak up if he/she thinks the instructor is "going through the motions" and passing everyone.

The store and certifying agency are irrelevant.

Bob

I'm sorry but your son failed in his duty as a dive professional.

He should have:

a. Coached this failing diving student. That's his job as an interning divemaster candidate.

b. Confronted the instructor about this issue.

C. Gone to the shop owner/course director.

Seriously, what are they going to do? Give him a bad report? He can go to another shop and finish his DM training there.

 

[Scott]

My son is a divemaster in training and helped out on an open-water certification weekend.

He is a candidate and has yet to receive his DM certification?
If so
Your son as a DMC is still a customer of the store and not an employee. The customer has the right to voice any concerns they see. Yes it could be counterproductive.
Your son needs to ask himself, if that is the way this Instructor trains OW divers what will my DM course be like?
Is this an Instructor or store I would want to work with/for?

After day one I told my son that if this guy passed I would turn in my C-cards (he was THAT bad) and low and behold at the end of the day Sunday the instructor was shaking his hand and congratulating him...HE PASSED.

So who did you turn your cards into?

 

[muddiver]

It's actually none of the DMs business and he should keep his nose out of the instructor's face. He can always go home and kick the s*&^ out of his cat. I've seen some pretty lousy divers doing their first ocean dives but they all survived and over a period of time became proficient divers. When I got my C-card I was at a loss and didn't really know what to do so I hired an instructor for a few days and got some additional individual training off of Ft. Lauderdale. Cost me several hundred but money well spent.

Because you are not a dive professional (or at least your profile does not show that you are) how do you know what a Divemaster business is? What makes you think a Divemaster should not be concerned and take intrest in a student in the class he is assisting with? What role does a Divemaster play in "your" little world?

 

[Ann Marie]

fnfalman,

I think that's a little harsh. I don't see him as failing. I see that he had a good learning experience. His job as a DMC is not to confront the instructor but to learn from him. The Instructor failed the student if he was certified before he could complete the skills in a minimum way that the agency has predetermined. He could have coached the student but before doing that should have talked to the Instructor about it.

 

[seaducer]

I think there is some responsibility on the part of the DM to make sure students are safe when they are certified. I think that if someone is really that ate up, yes the DM should go to the instructor and have a chat. That being said...

A DMC may not know enough at that point what they are looking at. In this instance I think the DMC should approach the instructor with some concern, but mostly in a questioning manner. If the student is sloppy, well, I don't think the DMC can say anything about it. If the skills are not present, then even as a DMC there should be a responsibility to make sure the instructor sees that and doesn't care.

FWIW tanks slip out of cam bands sometimes, it is not a lack of competence but sometimes old rental equipment. Many students new to OW and as a result exposure protection have no trim or bouyancy control either, but it doesn't mean they are not capable.

I didn't see the diver so I can't say.

 

[W8less]

As a DM candidate if your relationship with your instructor can't handle a side bar discussion on a student that is having difficulties, than you should probably seek out another instructor. The instructor should value your observation and take action accordingly.