Seeking the DIR Answer: Must DIR Shops be Committed?

[RiverRat]

While your other posts do it too, this posts is a great example of why many DIR divers would not want to dive with you. DIR is team oriented. I have corrected my own bouyancy (and teammates if absolutely necessary) to compensate for a newer DIR diver losing control of bouyancy during an air share and to give them time to get squared away without even thinking about it numerous times. It is a team exercise. Now, that is probably too much task loading for a newer diver to handle. But, until you stop blaming the other divers and recognize the team performed poorly, you just don't have the right mindset.

Ok I get that. But my intent was not to "blame" the other diver. I was merely defending my position. But don't forget, even though we all were at a different level in exp., we were ALL new to this, myself included except for comfort in the gear, but I think we all can agree is not an issue here. I do recognize the team aspect. But I do need to learn more. Haven't done much team diving yet.

You need to analzye how you could have caused the drill to go more smoothly (plus talk to the other divers constructively about their bouyancy after the dive).

I can buy that. And we did talk about that. As a divemaster I do this (help newbies) a lot and I'm passionate about helping divers. But as far as DIR diving I am a newbie also, so I surely do have some things to learn.

Based on your oversensitive reaction to how you were told it would be harder to hook up with other divers, I can only assume this response will make you go ballistic.

No, actually I think this is one of the better responses. Maybe I was a bit defensive. Like I said I'd like to fix it. Like I said earlier just an observation made early on is all.
Maybe it's really just a misunderstanding on my part?

If it was stated to you exactly as you have said, the information was definately conveyed poorly. But, accept that people don't always convey information perfectly.

OK so let's leave it at that and move on? I'm ready.

There aren't that many DIR divers out there. Just showing up at a local dive site to dive with some DIR divers without making prior arrangements has a spectacularly low chance of happening.

I agree, but this site has a good DIR crowd. I was just trying to strike up some arrangements. But I can understand. At my level I might need to prove myself a bit.
I can except that.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I can except that.

Except or accept?

 

[nilsdiver]

I asked, while learning some DIR stuff, that if I showed up at a place to dive, as a single diver, would I be able to hookup with some DIR divers to practice with. The answer I got was " ahhh you could.....but I doubt you'd find anyone there wiilling to dive with you".

When I read this it sounds to me like you are asking about showing up at a dive site without having a team, a plan, anyone expecting you, or knowing the divers there, or any kind of open invitation to new divers, and looking for a pickup team. That is how I am responding.

To me this the answer you got sounds like pretty realistic advice. The problem I see here is "if I showed up at a place to dive". Every one else there will already have their teams and plans set probably for days in advance... So you are basically showing up and asking people to change there teams and plans to dive with you. No one likes to do that, especially for someone they don't know.

But most people I know are willing to dive with and mentor new divers if they contact them before hand. Forums like this or other email lists are a great way to do that. Or talk with people in person at the dive sites, just don't be looking to dive with them right there and then.

 

[RiverRat]

only on SB........accept

 

[RiverRat]

When I read this it sounds to me like you are asking about showing up at a dive site without having a team, a plan, anyone expecting you, or knowing the divers there, or any kind of open invitation to new divers, and looking for a pickup team. That is how I am responding.

To me this the answer you got sounds like pretty realistic advice. The problem I see here is "if I showed up at a place to dive". Every one else there will already have their teams and plans set probably for days in advance... So you are basically showing up and asking people to change there teams and plans to dive with you. No one likes to do that, especially for someone they don't know.

But most people I know are willing to dive with and mentor new divers if they contact them before hand. Forums like this or other email lists are a great way to do that. Or talk with people in person at the dive sites, just don't be looking to dive with them right there and then.

I never thought of it quite like that. Again newbie here.
Just for the record I may have hooked up with someone to work skills with, as a result of this forum, so in the end all this typing today may have been of great benefit.

 

[TSandM]

Super outcome! Have fun with it, River Rat -- Putting together a good diving team is a great thing.

 

[Vayu]

Vayu, I find it sad that you were initially very sold on the DIR approach, and something has disillusioned you to the point of being angry. I learned in my teens, with respect to religion, that people are human and you do the best you can to get by, and it isn't always adhering strictly to principles you may approve of and even try to pass on to others.

I think you have misunderstood me a little bit here. I still think the DIR approach is valid and I try my best to dive in line with the principles and with a strong team. Though I dive this way, I do not look down on people who don't and I don't consider it a religion. What I have a problem with is some of the people involved in marketing the DIR approach. There is a distinct difference here.

Alot of people on the board say one of the great things about this approach to diving is that two divers who have been trained this way can usually get togethor and expect to enjoy safe dives. While I do dive with some people trained this way, I think it is a flaw to think two DIR divers from separate localities should expect a safe dive togethor solely on the basis of that training.

I judge people individually and decide if they will be safe for a dive regardless if they have taken a GUE class or not. I like to test people out in shallower waters before getting into deep diving or overhead. Many of the DIR people here in florida seem to be addicted to extreme diving. They try to get people into it even if they are not ready. This has led me to believe that they are not that concerned about safe diving.

It's not the system, it's the people. What comes across to you as "anger" is just my frustration at having met so many people associated with GUE that say one thing and then turn around and do the opposite. I'm not talking about DIR specific principles here but basic safety considerations.

I don't care if you go through the GUE EDGE list before you dive. What I care about is planning a dive, diving the plan, and keeping new divers out of extreme environments.

This is why I believe Catherine's question is a valid one.

 

[seiff]

Maybe you should take a look at some of GI3's old quotes.
Catherine, for the record I have been diving with you and will go with you again!! I don't know how a "wannabe" can Rule #1 anybody. In fact it seems to be the "wannabes" that invoke that rule the most. (Just my perception.)

This wannabe agrees with you that wannabes should not be rule#1'ing people, just so that's straight. I brought up the rule, as I understand it, to circumstantially agree with her in that alot of people hold by the rule and still excercise some personal judgement about who is a stroke and who's not. I don't think there is anything wrong with a shop doing the same thing and doing business will all kinds of responsible divers including but not limited to DIR.

The original poster did not consider herself DIR but still used circular reasoning to both prove and disagree with the idea that DIR divers should EXCLUSIVELY dive with only DIR divers, and that shops should be run according to the same concept. I am like her in that I would not consider myself a DIR diver, but most people's opinions I have seen about Rule#1 seem to be a little more inclusive than what she is getting at. This is why I brought up the rule; not because I want to school her on DIR by any means. I know that there are some comments out there that are a little more exclusive to rec diving.

I am not like her in that I "wannabe" DIR compliant at some point and even if shops did start to be exclusively DIR, that's fine with me I just want to be a safe diver. DIR seems the way/philosophy for how I want to dive, I just have some equipment/training issues to rectify first. -tadd

 

[Cacia]

The original poster did not consider herself DIR but still used circular reasoning to both prove and disagree with the idea that DIR divers should EXCLUSIVELY dive with only DIR divers, and that shops should be run according to the same concept. I am like her in that I would not consider myself a DIR diver, but most people's opinions I have seen about Rule#1 seem to be a little more inclusive than what she is getting at.

No...what I pondering was that an Instructor can teach a DIR class and say certain things on Monday, and then take a group of non-DIR tourist divers to a very deep wreck and penetrate the next day, on Tuesday....and I was wondering if the HQ's or key people of DIR ever had any directives that spoke to that... I'm still not completely clear on the answer because I thought the responses were a little mixed. It also seems as though it might depend on regional differences and sizes of population centers and popularity of the DIR philosohy as far as the economis of the shops. (so thats what I gleened from the responses, the rest was really addressing the if I should be even asking the question)

Also, as wrecks become more territorial, I see this becoming an issue as I have experienced DIR divers who will say that people *like me* have no business in a certain wreck because I am not "trained." The TDI crowd, (my impression) just does their thing and doesn't SEEM to be so involved with enforcing things for others. Maybe its just my impression though...which is why I raised the question.

That is what prompted the question. For anybody who thinks that is bashing DIR, well, they are jumping to conclusions. I'm much more practical than that.--like obsessing on you fixing that hose, for example, lol.

BTW...what are the policy setters in DIR or GUE called...is it one or two people or a larger group than that?

 

[netmage]

No...what I pondering was that an Instructor can teach a DIR class and say certain things on Monday, and then take a group of non-DIR tourist divers to a very deep wreck and penetrate the next day....and I was wondering if the HQ's or key people ever had any directives that spoke to that...

especially in light of the fact they will often say that people "like me" have no business in a certain wreck because I am not "trained"

that is what prompted the question.

Personally, I would consider actions such as you describe hypocritical. I'd certainly hope one does not simply wake up in the morning and decide which face to present to the world; Dr. DIR or Dr. Stroke depending on the clientelle walking through the door....