Saw this at the quarry today

[hvulin]

Don't forget that in some parts of the world (states too) helpping a person that refuses help can get you to court - and you will loose!

The guy was asked twice and both times replied "no", so it was a good choice not to help but keep an eye on them...

btw. who was leading a group that this 2 were part of? and where was he/she? how were the 2 of them found separated on surface? who let them in the water in the first place?

 

[Sideband]

Don't forget that in some parts of the world (states too) helpping a person that refuses help can get you to court - and you will loose!

The guy was asked twice and both times replied "no", so it was a good choice not to help but keep an eye on them...

btw. who was leading a group that this 2 were part of? and where was he/she? how were the 2 of them found separated on surface? who let them in the water in the first place?

The place was packed with shops with students as well as clubs and individuals. With around 200 people out there it's hard to tell which group they belong in.

 

[PRL]

Thats fantastic at least now you have no fears of whether or not to trust your instructor. :jump013:

Also it is my nature to question things and what happened here was the diver signaled all was OK then about 2 mins later drop backwards and drowned. The divers on the shore did not respond as they where told OK.

That is why I was sooo adiment. I ment no harm but the question you asked after the thread would have saved all this. (not a cut or statment to you)

Well PRL is having a hay day. I WAS WRONG. :voskl1: I have no trouble in saying so.

Happy dives.

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

Not having a hay day at all, as a metter of fact I enjoyed our conversation, I dont think that you were wrong for what you thougth was the situation.
I had a slight advantage, I didnt have personal feelings about the situation, and as you pointed out, someone died in your part of the world, and Im sure you analized the accident many times in your head, and now every iffy situation is personal.

 

[PRL]

Forgot one more thing. Sideband, every time you have concerns after a dive bring it up at the debreefing (might even enter it in your log book) and talk about it with your buddies, that is a good way to learn. From what you said it appears that you have a pretty good relationship with your instructor, and Im sure he will have no problem if you question any situation. You should even be able to question his behaivor as long as you dont do it in front of other students.

 

[SquattingRadishDM]

Sideband the biggest concensus we got from this thread I feel is that you should go for your Recue Diver (or equivalent) qualification and move on from there.

Its well worth it and if your going to be working with unqualified divers its a must I would say.

You seem to have the correct attitude so the Rescue course will be 80% common sense to you.

 

[Gary D.]

Don't forget that in some parts of the world (states too) helpping a person that refuses help can get you to court - and you will loose!

The guy was asked twice and both times replied "no", so it was a good choice not to help but keep an eye on them...

btw. who was leading a group that this 2 were part of? and where was he/she? how were the 2 of them found separated on surface? who let them in the water in the first place?

Getting into court isn't the problem. Changing everything from your name into their's is, for you and it will happen.

I tried to explain this earlier but it didn't sink in for some. There are times you WILL have to let the person pass out. At that point implied consent takes over again and your safe jumping in. If you jump in prior to them passing out just make it simple and give them everything you own but keep the bills, you need to pay the balance off first.

Like I said earlier, If they drown, they drown. You didn't put them in that position and your good deed will haunt you the rest of your life trying to save a person that refuses help.

Gary D.

 

[Sideband]

Sideband the biggest concensus we got from this thread I feel is that you should go for your Recue Diver (or equivalent) qualification and move on from there.

Its well worth it and if your going to be working with unqualified divers its a must I would say.

You seem to have the correct attitude so the Rescue course will be 80% common sense to you.

Agreed on both of the first 2 points and I thank you and hope you are right about the 3rd. I have AOW slated for next ~March~ to start the new season and then Rescue in July or so. I'm thinking the class will be a really good way to get back into the water after winter.

Joe

 

[wolf eel]

Getting into court isn't the problem. Changing everything from your name into their's is, for you and it will happen.

[

I tried to explain this earlier but it didn't sink in for some.]

There are times you WILL have to let the person pass out. At that point implied consent takes over again and your safe jumping in. If you jump in prior to them passing out just make it simple and give them everything you own but keep the bills, you need to pay the balance off first.

Like I said earlier, If they drown, they drown. You didn't put them in that position and your good deed will haunt you the rest of your life trying to save a person that refuses help.

Gary D.

Yes it did sink in. Thank you very much I feel mine did not.

You have taken this diver who is talking and not a total freak and made him/her into a spazzed out diver. This was not the case.

Before giving people the knowledge to let people drown why not tell them to take a course. And lets start with the AOW as he is doing then lets do the rescue. I have allways said he did the right thing. You have stated how he should do this and do that and make calls based on letting people pass out and maybe drown. But until he learns how. He should be doing as he has and taking a step back and getting somebody else to take control who we presume is trained.

The never comes from me not having anybody passed out but I have dealt with more then one very stressed out person and have been able to talk and walk them through there own ****. Thats again after having a pred net fall on you and you can't move and fall to about 225 and hang there and wait. Still freaked and a whole lot dumb but still I have never had to let people pass out or dog paddle around the boat at the surface. Would I sudjest that sideband jump in and drop to untagle a dive bud NO and would he work with us NO but he may learn alot. diver panic is different then your average panic but it still can kill no doubt. But somewhere in the brain box is the training even if it is deep it does come out I think.

My only concern was the instructor, and the dive guy as we all know sideband did what his teaching told him to do get better trained help and stay out of reach. I think I can say that.

The other point in my country I can not be sued for helping another person. I can if I do not.

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

 

[wolf eel]

[

Not having a hay day at all, as a metter of fact I enjoyed our conversation]

The hay day part was with a smile I love this stuff. :jump3:

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

 

[divenut2001]

Getting into court isn't the problem. Changing everything from your name into their's is, for you and it will happen.

I tried to explain this earlier but it didn't sink in for some. There are times you WILL have to let the person pass out. At that point implied consent takes over again and your safe jumping in. If you jump in prior to them passing out just make it simple and give them everything you own but keep the bills, you need to pay the balance off first.

Like I said earlier, If they drown, they drown. You didn't put them in that position and your good deed will haunt you the rest of your life trying to save a person that refuses help.

Gary D.

Couldn't find the page in the Rescue manual where it tells you to let someone "pass out" before you help them. Which one are you using, is it the CYOA manual?

In the Rescue manual "!" used, it was the Rescuer's "safety" that came first. If you were in danger of being "physically hurt" you were not to attempt a rescue.

"If they drown, they drown"??? Sure hope there's someone besides you around if anyone needs help.