Saw this at the quarry today

[PRL]

The quarry that sideband is refering to is designed for diving and is very well suited for training and on a sunday morning at any given time I'm sure that at least 5 divers saw the incident and if it got out of hand help would be imidiate. The quarry has an exilent surface support.
If anyone is interested than the link http://www.haighquarry.com/quarry.htm is to the map of the quarry, the rock crusher is to the left of the map. Notice that even if the instructor didnt hang around, he couldnt go very far unless he went to his car.

 

[wolf eel]

Hey Sideband.

I am sorry for going further then needed that last post was up just as you put the last one up.

I realize you have limited responsabilities but the fact that as we grow and understand more we get to where we think we know loads. And that has allways being a problem for me because I have loads of other training and watching people say things and act as if they have years of experience has cost people there lives and if you have ever seen somebody do the funky chicken just because of improper statments from people who thought they knew better. It makes you a little sinical.

You seem like a person who will be a excellent dive buddy. You are doing what you have been taught and that is excellent to say the least.

I am sorry if I pissed you off but i felt your Pro dive statement was overstating. I know you know the diver was in trouble you did the right thing.

It was the instructor that failed.

As for being incoherent I don't have to talk when I am working so I may be a little Narced but I still can see a problem when there is one. (not you).

The point I had about the officer is just that we are not the bad guys that is how you treat a bad guy not a diver in trouble who can talk. That was not a cut to him.

But I will still say never let a diver in distress with breathing hard to leave the water on his/her own even if they say they are alright you can see they are not as you did. You and only You did the right thing.

I am going to change my name to "foaming at the mouth" that goes good with mixed gasses. The more anal you are the more likely you will come home even from a petty little dive in a quary. (just to get them going lol)

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

 

[divenut2001]

I know there is no pro buddy cert.. That's why I put it in quotes. The classes almost always seem to be an odd number of people. I get to go out for free and make it even. Like I just tried to explain to Wolf Eel, in the water I have no real responsibilities beyond being a dive buddy and am under the same supervision that the students are and have the same responsibilities. Mostly, breath and stay with your buddy. There was an instructor about 3 feet above the 4 of us the entire dive. The other group had the same situation but the guy tasked with the "lead" was a class member. The entire dive involved following a rope to a piece of machinery, checking pressures and returning to the platform by following the rope the other way. 2 of our guys just got confused and surfaced instead of turning around which caused the others to do the same.
I don't get to, and know I'm not ready to, truely lead a group. The instructors make that clear to the students and those that still come to me with questions get referred to the instructor without fail. On land I'm a gofer. I go out because I get to dive for free, really get to reinforce my skills and it is fun.

If I made it sound like I was doing more in my original post then I apologize. It was very late and I had been at the quarry for 13 hours followed by an hour and a half drive home.

It did sound like you were "in charge" of the group, especially when you asked them to show you their remaining air pressures and "instructed" them to reverse course. I also got the impression and you just confirmed it, that you were gaining more experience while filling the void for someone who was buddyless. That is an excellent way to gain experience and build confidence plus you're practicing skills that a lot of divers don't practice often enough if at all after their OW course. I'm sure in time you will make an excellent DM, you definitely have the right attitude. Again, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Sideband]

Foaming at the mouth not likely.

You should take the advanced course before you take the rescue course.

First YOU said you are a Dive Buddy PRO I am sorry for reading into what you said. But in diving you have all kinds of dudes that do not have a clue. Even instructors and DM's. As for the other comments they did not read what your cert level is. Because if they had they would realize that you have only dove in one place. You responded to be a dive buddy PRO that would give a novice the idea if they are in trouble you would be there to assit. Because you are a dive buddy PRO. Again I was only truly worried about the other diver. Yes I think you would become a great person to take on the Advance course then after many dives and problems that come along then maybe you should take the rescue course. Sorry for taking the PRO dive buddy out of contents but your statment about the slap part is what really drew my attention. Where do you get off saying that maybe they where just training. Because what YOU said was what I thought was what happened. That being said I have never shot my mouth off about you but I did about the instructor. As the DM that read this he?she failed to look at what you have for expeirence.
Cheers
foaming at the mouth.

The Pro part was a joke. Like I said before, all the students are told by the instructors that I am not a source of information and I repeat that for any students that didn't understand it the first time around. Also, it doesn't really change anything but I have been more than one place. True it has all been in quarries, but I was in a quarry.

I didn't say they were just training. I just said I saw a guy in trouble with a buddy that was oblivious to that fact. I said the buddy needed slapped because I feel it is true. I'm not insinuating anything by this but I take my buddy responsibilities very seriously and would hope someone would slap me if I let my dive buddy get into this,or any situation and didn't know it. I feel that my, and my buddies, responsibilities start before we get into the water and are not necessarily over even after we are out of the water. Before every dive we check each others gear. In the water on the surface, we are within about 5 to 10 feet of each other. On descent, we face each other and do a quick bubble check. During the dive we stay within about 3 feet of each other and always know where the other is. I will probably ask and be asked if everything is ok several times during the dive. On ascent we face each other again. Once we are out of the water we talk about the dive and how we feel physically. Once we go our separate ways home we are on our own. Those are MY rules that I dive by and if the other guy doesn't like them he can find a different buddy. I intend to keep those rules for the rest of the time I am diving. Are they high standards? Sure. Are they too high? Anyone that thinks so is free to not dive with me. Will that limit my options? I'm sure it will but I don't care. That is where I get off saying that the buddy should be slapped.
Should the instructor be slapped as well? Probably. Maybe something even more serious. That was part of the reason I made the post to begin with. I didn't feel that enough was done. If the more qualified person failed to react or under-reacted, as seems to be the case, should I have done something else? I have no control over anyone but me and I'm the person that has to live with what I do or fail to do regardless of a piece of plastic saying I've demonstrated a set of skills. Just as there is no "Pro buddy" card I'm sure there is no "I'm sorry but I haven't had the proper training to assist you. I'll be back after I get my rescue cert. or someone that cares" card.<That was a joke as well> I do intend to take the rescue course but this happened now. Popular opinion seems to be that someone should have stayed with the guy and alerted the buddy. Even if someone else didn't do that, I am someone as well and now regret not having done it myself.
If I seemed to get defensive it was because I was suddenly defending being where I was and what I was doing there instead of the situation. The other instructor, not the one from this situation, wouldn't even let me pass out weight belts until he took me on a skills dive. He would stop me cold if he thought for a minute that my participation was in any way a violation of agency standards or placed myself or a student in potential danger. I know because he has done it.

And I didn't think you were foaming... Maybe a little excess drooling... but not foaming
Joe

 

[Sideband]

Hey Sideband.


I am sorry if I pissed you off but i felt your Pro dive statement was overstating. I know you know the diver was in trouble you did the right thing.


Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

You didn't piss me off. Posts can be hard to enterpret sometimes and I understand that. My first post appears to be a bit misleading,. As I said in another post, 13 hours at the quarry and 3 hours total drive time before the post...
The pro buddy thing was kind of intended to be over the top but was maybe mis-timed.

Joe

 

[Sideband]

It did sound like you were "in charge" of the group, especially when you asked them to show you their remaining air pressures and "instructed" them to reverse course. I also got the impression and you just confirmed it, that you were gaining more experience while filling the void for someone who was buddyless. That is an excellent way to gain experience and build confidence plus you're practicing skills that a lot of divers don't practice often enough if at all after their OW course. I'm sure in time you will make an excellent DM, you definitely have the right attitude. Again, I wish you the best of luck.

Yup. Definitely over stated on my part. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I hope to prove you right in a few years.

Joe

 

[PRL]

Joe, one thing I might suggest is that next time you see your instructor ask him what ever happened to that diver. I suspect that the instructor keept an eye out for the diver while your group was doing the short surface swim to the exit. I know I would.
Its been a while since I was at Haigh but I'm pretty sure there is a huge buoy at the rock crusher where the diver could grab onto it if he got in real trouble.

 

[Sideband]

Joe, one thing I might suggest is that next time you see your instructor ask him what ever happened to that diver. I suspect that the instructor keept an eye out for the diver while your group was doing the short surface swim to the exit. I know I would.
Its been a while since I was at Haigh but I'm pretty sure there is a huge buoy at the rock crusher where the diver could grab onto it if he got in real trouble.

:11: You know... I never considered that. THIS is why I post here. I will ask him. I actually feel a lot better now. I still wish I had made sure something like that had happened at the time but at least I can verify if my faith in that instructor is warranted. Then I get to beat myself up over doubting his performance.

Actually, directly over the crusher there is a metal framework about 5 feet down that you can stand on. Of course it helps to have your bc on but it is doable. There is also a buoy.
Thanks again for that ray of light.

Joe

 

[wolf eel]

Hey Sidebar

This has nothing to due with you. But PRL is on the path of complete denial wholly crap I know you did the right thing I think I have said that from the start. I truly feel that you have your poop dialed as for your time in the water. As dive nut mentioned in one of the first statements he thought you where on the right track but the dive Pro thing got him and myself. I have said sorry for that as I have full faith in your ability to reconize trouble in another diver.

PRL fails to understand what being in trouble means you do not have time to grab as you are about to pass out. In the event you are have a hypox problem then you will have vertigo good luck in finding the platform and so on.
This is what gets my hair up. :fro:

Ask your instructor before you tell him/her about this forum. And ask him to be honest about it and tell that person how it has affected you. I do not feel your instructor is a complete failure I just feel he failed to go beyond what was his daily routine was.

As for PRL all he has said is all is good your instructor was in control. That statment makes me ask all kinds of questions like did he go and just hang with the guy and ask his group to keep working with the other instructors and then stay with the guy talking to him as you all faded into the back ground. I ask because to watch from a distance is not good enough in bad viss with no air it is hard to find somebody heading down.

I will say again I feel you do have great ability to reconize trouble but what your instructor did was lapse in judgement not a total f... up just complacent I think as I do not know him or her. Again a rec instructor deals with loads of people and like all trades they fail some times because of doing so many dives with novices. And as dive nut said you where the one in control.

Excellent dive site looks like a lot of fun how deep is it at depth I've heard 300+ is this true?

Cheers
Foaming at the mouth

 

[PRL]

Joe, for all we know the diver was practicing BC removal and dawning at the surface (a useful skill while diving of a small boat) and I know that that skill can leave you breathless
if not yet mastered, and the dive budy could have been observing the divers performance
from underwater and be oblivous to the fact that two divers were offering help on the surface.
In any case, you did good