Salvo versus Halcyon: Solved.

[Derek S]

there is a reason The Rat is called The Rat. i can tell you that he used to get scooters in for repair, keep the good motors and send them out with crappy motors. trust me on this one. i know. his ethics have never been high caliber. most of you do not know the real barry.

Scott -

Was the scooter engine incident(s) before, during, or after Barry's employ with Halcyon? If his ethics were never high caliber, why was he brought into the fold in the first place? A person with questionable moral fiber who happens to make good dive lights is still a person with questionable moral fiber, regardless.

I'm not being argumentative, I just want to know the history behind all of this.

 

[Jason B]

JasonB: I took the fundies and learned a lot. I know people who have salvo lights and I think they are a nice light. But that doesn't mean that I don't find fault in what Barry did. I'm only sipping at the kool-aid teet, but it's really not that bad Most people I have met are pretty darned nice and good divers. As are a mI enjoyed diving with you all and would welcome doing it again. But I will be bringing some H gear

Sorry Chris, I should have included a smilie.

 

[cmalinowski]

Sorry Chris, I should have included a smilie.

No sweat. Those day-old sausages will still be there for you this year

 

[lamont]

Personally I work for a company, and also purchase a lot of junk from that company, that engages in practices surrounding patent law that I think are ethically unsound and which cripple the entire industry to the tune of probably billions over time. I used to work briefly for a defense contractor, and justified that to myself (i'm generally against making weapons so I have ethical problems there) by the fact that we were taking military technology and trying to spin it off into a startup making civilian technology. Against those two companies I've been involved with, this $150k of damage that Barry did to Halcyon is ethically almost nothing. The worst that you could make out either JJ or Barry over this entire matter doesn't make me bat an eyelash. JJ could be entirely right and Barry completely wrong and I'd still buy Salvo when it made sense. Barry could be entirely in the right in every single matter other than those where he's admitted wrongdoing, and I'd still buy Halcyon when it made sense. This whole tempest in a teapot doesn't alter my decision making at all. I don't care.

What matters is product and customer service. I'm consistantly seeing Halcyon lights having problems, being sent back and taking 2 months to turn around and then having the fixes be broken. With Salvo lights they tend to not have the problems and when they do, Salvo turns them around in a day or two and ships them back producing more satisfied customers. There's also a disturbing trend of Halcyon employees trying to put pressure on people out-of-band for supporting Barry on the net -- going so far as to try to get Bob fired and calling up people who have absolutely zero professional relationship with Halcyon/GUE/WKPP through any channels and are simply GUE-trained and harassing them. At the same time, though, the Halcyon Evolve wings simply rock. Those are the things that I care about. Halcyon needs to be focusing on those issues. Getting on the net and trying to either slam Barry or defend JJ is not going to win them any points that really matter.

 

[surlynkid]

You "know," do you?

First hand knowledge? Did you work at Halcyon and see him do it, or do you "know" because someone else told you?

when will every one realize that i do not and have never worked for halcyon, GUE, or any place else in the dive industry. the motors was something he used to brag about years ago. it was well known in the right circles. it was also well known to never sent him a scooter with a fast motor if you wanted to still have a fast motor. i still have a screaming fast motor. i realize much of this stuff goes back further than many of you have been involved in tech diving, but there is a lot of history that would help give many of you a bigger perspective.

 

[H2Andy]

Getting on the net and trying to either slam Barry or defend JJ is
not going to win them any points that really matter.

i agree, and the same goes for Barry's suporters

look guys, i'm not going to buy from the nicest guy around. i am going to
buy from whoever has the best prices, best service, and who fits my needs
as a diver

all this crap is petty stuff between guys with big egos. not on my dime.

 

[surlynkid]

Scott -

Was the scooter engine incident(s) before, during, or after Barry's employ with Halcyon? If his ethics were never high caliber, why was he brought into the fold in the first place? A person with questionable moral fiber who happens to make good dive lights is still a person with questionable moral fiber, regardless.

I'm not being argumentative, I just want to know the history behind all of this.

before. i do not know of it occurring after.

your questions are valid about bringing him into the fold, but i have no answer. i was not involved in halcyon hiring.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What matters is product and customer service. I'm consistantly seeing Halcyon lights having problems, being sent back and taking 2 months to turn around and then having the fixes be broken. With Salvo lights they tend to not have the problems and when they do, Salvo turns them around in a day or two and ships them back producing more satisfied customers. There's also a disturbing trend of Halcyon employees trying to put pressure on people out-of-band for supporting Barry on the net -- going so far as to try to get Bob fired and calling up people who have absolutely zero professional relationship with Halcyon/GUE/WKPP through any channels and are simply GUE-trained and harassing them. At the same time, though, the Halcyon Evolve wings simply rock. Those are the things that I care about. Halcyon needs to be focusing on those issues. Getting on the net and trying to either slam Barry or defend JJ is not going to win them any points that really matter.

Thank you Lamont ... that's really what I've been trying to convey.

Neither Salvo nor Halcyon is going to "win" this one ... no matter what happens. Continuing to pursue Salvo through civil channels, as JJ said he planned to do, is ... to quote his friend ... farm animal stupid. He'd be doing himself a huge favor to just let go of it at this point, and try to compete with Salvo through superior products and service.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[surlynkid]

Against those two companies I've been involved with, this $150k of damage that Barry did to Halcyon is ethically almost nothing.

QUOTE]

unfortunately, salvo and halcyon are not that big. these are still really not much bigger than mom and pop companies. i've worked for $40B / year companies and we'd blow that much during a turnaround and never miss it. the scale is relative for this. for the size company it is, $100K is huge. if you worked for enron and lost $100K+ from your 401K, would you want Lay's head?

 

[H2Andy]

yeah surlyn, but so what?

these are businesses

why are they trying to convince me they're right on this personal thing?
why do they even assume i care?

concentrate on getting my business... and this... ain't... doing it