Question Help Me Spend my Money on New Strobes

[WS007]

One aspect for the selection of the right strobes is also the sensor size: the bigger the sensor, the more output the strobe has to deliver for WA photos. Hence, for OM-1 and TG-6 the strobe with the highest output power (HF-1) may not be necessarily required (but the HF-1 are tempting and one cannot have too much power. It is always possible to reduce the output level).
When I was using MFT cameras (EM5II and EM1II), YS-D2 and Z-330 was o.k. for WA with fisheye lenses (Zuiko 8mm, Canon 8-15mm and Tokina 10-17mm), but I would not have liked to have weaker strobes for that (e.g. D200). Now I am using a FF camera (Sony A7R5) and see myself using the Z-330s most of the time in full power strength, when making WA photos (and not so seldom would like to have more flash light available)...

It seems to me that the DS125 are very good strobes, with respect to built quality, but also when one considers output power and light quality (but I never had these strobes). Output power comes close to bigger ones, e.g. YS-D3II or Z-330...

In case your DS125 are still in a good shape, why not invest few hundreds of $$$ and continue to use them for WA?

When buying new ones, I only would consider strobes with an output power at least as strong as the DS125 when using OM-1 with a 180° fisheye lens. Here is a list of strobes. ordered according to maximum output, that I had in consideration some time ago (I added now DS125, Marelux and HF-1 also; according to Marelux, the Apollo III is now shipping (my local dealer, Panocean in Germany lists them as in stock)). In addition to max. power consumption, one has to consider the color temperature also, as the filters used to warm up the light will reduce the output power (I am not sure that the HF-1 has so much more power compared to e.g. DS 230 or Seacam 160, that have by their own warm color temperatures):

In addition to two strobes with higher output (either refurbished D125 or new ones), one could acquire one or two small strobes for macro and TG-6. My choice would be one or two MF-2 with one snoot (I have one MF-2 with snoot for macro and this is a great toy ) ...



Wolfgang

 

[rmorgan]

I was on a boat with a couple of folks using prerelease HF-1s in January. Their ability to repetitively fire was very impressive, and not needing separate video lights, plus red light, plus 21700s—I think they’re likely to be as much a step forward as the MF1/2, and for a good price.

 

[Lewis88]

I honestly don't think the S220's are going to be enough light for you. My Ys-110a's were GN22 like the S220's.

I shoot APS-C, so a bigger sensor than M43, but I still needed more light when shooting WA.

 

[AggressorBLUE]

One aspect for the selection of the right strobes is also the sensor size: the bigger the sensor, the more output the strobe has to deliver for WA photos. Hence, for OM-1 and TG-6 the strobe with the highest output power (HF-1) may not be necessarily required (but the HF-1 are tempting and one cannot have too much power. It is always possible to reduce the output level).
When I was using MFT cameras (EM5II and EM1II), YS-D2 and Z-330 was o.k. for WA with fisheye lenses (Zuiko 8mm, Canon 8-15mm and Tokina 10-17mm), but I would not have liked to have weaker strobes for that (e.g. D200). Now I am using a FF camera (Sony A7R5) and see myself using the Z-330s most of the time in full power strength, when making WA photos (and not so seldom would like to have more flash light available)...

It seems to me that the DS125 are very good strobes, with respect to built quality, but also when one considers output power and light quality (but I never had these strobes). Output power comes close to bigger ones, e.g. YS-D3II or Z-330...

In case your DS125 are still in a good shape, why not invest few hundreds of $$$ and continue to use them for WA?

When buying new ones, I only would consider strobes with an output power at least as strong as the DS125 when using OM-1 with a 180° fisheye lens. Here is a list of strobes. ordered according to maximum output, that I had in consideration some time ago (I added now DS125, Marelux and HF-1 also; according to Marelux, the Apollo III is now shipping (my local dealer, Panocean in Germany lists them as in stock)). In addition to max. power consumption, one has to consider the color temperature also, as the filters used to warm up the light will reduce the output power (I am not sure that the HF-1 has so much more power compared to e.g. DS 230 or Seacam 160, that have by their own warm color temperatures):

View attachment 838057


In addition to two strobes with higher output (either refurbished D125 or new ones), one could acquire one or two small strobes for macro and TG-6. My choice would be one or two MF-2 with one snoot (I have one MF-2 with snoot for macro and this is a great toy ) ...



Wolfgang

I’d considered the Marelux line, but I’m hesitant as for roughly the same size/weight/cost as the HF-1, they seem to have lower performance for both the flash and the target light (based on published specs for both flashes). Yet they still require a specialized battery, opposed to AAs. Also, not sure if they do service/repair work in the US?

Another key consideration for how I build out my rigs is as much uniformity as reasonably possible; going with the Backscatter setup allows me to share batteries among the HF and MF strobes (so if if a charger and/or battery fails, I have backups and options, versus a strobe being out of action for a trip), and Backscatter just confirmed via an email correspondence I have with them that the HF and MF operate the same in terms of controls which is a huge bonus for me; I don’t have to mentally switch gears when changing up strobes. If I went with Marelux, I’d have to still find another brand of strobe for the TG-6, as it looks like they won’t be releasing a mini strobe any time soon.

As far as why I don’t keep the DS125s in use, thats a good question with a few answers: I’d have to pay about $150 for another optical adapter (only have one working one), and I’d also want to spend ~$80 on new wall chargers for the batteries; I’m using the older generation of chargers that are massive and very travel non-friendly, the newer ones are much smaller ‘wall warts’. And that still leaves the TG-6 needing a strobe. And as rmorgan pointed out, the recycle time on the HF-1s is a huge step forward, and would let me take advantage of the high shooting speed of the OM-1. On top of all that, it wouldn’t surprise me if the HF-1 stickers for around $1.2k post pre-order, so getting in on the lower cost now has it’s advantages (and of course, it’s risks).

 

[AggressorBLUE]

I honestly don't think the S220's are going to be enough light for you. My Ys-110a's were GN22 like the S220's.

I shoot APS-C, so a bigger sensor than M43, but I still needed more light when shooting WA.

Appreciate this input! And yeah, thinking more on it, traveling with bigger, heaver strobes is always a PITA, but when considering the S220 would still require me to bring a separate dive light with it’s own batteries/charger, the weight and space savings benefits start to narrow sharply.

 

[AggressorBLUE]

Update: Decision Made!

I decided to hedge a bit, and went with a single MF2 for the TG-6, and (for now) a single HF-1 for the OM-1. A few reasons, in case anyone cares:
-Hedges a bit of the early adopter risk of the HF-1 (but admittedly forgoes some of the ‘reward’ of the pre-order cost savings)
-Kept the budget more in line with what I was thinking when first exploring going with a trio of S220s.
-The HF-1 with the wide diffuser (of which I ordered the three pack with the different color temps) seems powerful enough to light up mid-sized CFWA scenes with one strobe, so in terms of total lighting power, I’m confident that it will get the job done as a single strobe. (Dual strobes of course open up way more possibilities for lighting a
-The trip coming up will be only my second with my OM-1, and having only one strobe lets me focus more on the finer points of getting the camera and flash (and operator..) to work in harmony, especially with TTL.
-If I really feel like playing with dual strobes, I can always steal the MF2 from my wife for a dive or two

Plan is still to go with a dual strobe setup next year (eyeing up Blue Water Photos Sea of Cortez trip).

 

[Susan1234]

OK, so. Another day, another “what should I buy” post!

I currently have two rigs:

-Olympus OM-1 with AOI UH-MO1 housing, used most often with the Olympus 8MM fish eye for shooting CFWA, with occasional use of the Olympus 60mm Macro.

-The standard issue Olympus TG-6 with a PT-059 Housing. The TG-6 is used mostly by my wife with the Backscatter AIR wet lens for general point/shoot work, some video, and Macro.

Been using an aging pair of Ikelite DS125s, but to get them both back in service I’d need to spend $150 on another fiberoptic adapter, and I don’t feel like throwing more money at 15+ year old strobes.

Being from the North East US, I’m a travel photographer; which means my strobes sadly don’t see a lot of milage (two trips a year at best) and as such I expect the ‘investment’ I make now to serve me well beyond a decade. It also means for the OM-1 I’m looking for ideally strobes that are lighter/smaller than the Ikes. The power level of the 125s seems ‘ok’, but I’ll take (and am willing to pay for) an upgrade if it can be done at at least the same, if not ideally smaller, size. Batteries are another reason I’m shelving the 125s; paying Ike $250 for Nickel batteries in the year 2024 leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

For the TG-6 I’m looking for something that has straight forward TTL support (doesn’t have to be RC mode) so things are as generally point-and-shoot friendly as possible for my wife.

So my head has been a few places:

A trio of Inon S220. Two for the OM-1, One for the TG-5
Pros: three of the same model make it easy to swap around rigs if needed, and only need to remember how to work one type of strobe, also very small and travel friendly. Uses Double AAs
Cons: Would loose some power to the 125s (too much lost power for CFWA with the 8MM?), and no built in guide light offsets their compact size by requiring packing separate dive lights.

A trio of D200s: Similar pros and cons as the S220, but they are a bit bigger, a bit less powerful, but do come with built in focus lights. Also slightly more expensive.

Sea and Sea: I’ve heard…mixed things about their reliability, and so I’m a bit hesitant to take the plunge there. Would likely go with a hybrid of two YS-D3 Lightenings for the OM-1 and one Inon S220 for the TG-6.

Otherwise the higher end strobes seem too big and past where I’m comfortable budget wise (trying to get the total price in under $3k).

Though there is now a dark horse: Back Scatters recently announced HF-1.

For the Backscatter approach, I’d go with two HF-1s for the OM-1, and a Micro Flash 2 for the OM1.
Pros: on paper, the HF-1 looks a bit smaller than the DS125s, but is far faster and more powerful. While I’m not big on video with the OM-1, the lights will be great for night diving and as focus lights (and snoot aiming). I like that it has Olympus RC mode compatibility and high speed shutter sync. The rapid fire shooting looks crazy, and there’s no doubt it will be more than enough power to support the 8mm. Also, while it doesn’t use Double As, I do appreciate that the propreitaryish batteries aren’t near as expensive as Ikes, and that the HF-1 and MF2 (and Macro wide) share the same batteries
Cons: Newly launched and not ‘battle tested’ in the wild yet (with production models at least?).

(I’m open to hearing about Marelux too, but to my knowledge their strobe products (which seem to have a lot in common with the HF-1 in terms of specs) haven’t hit the market yet? And they look bigger than the HF-1)

OK, so enough of my jabber; what does the ScubaBoard hive mind think I should do?

Would you share what light/strobes you decided on for both you & your wife please? I am looking for an underwater strobe and/or light that does a decent job at BOTH macro & wide angle. I have a TG6 with an Olympus PT-059 housing. I am an amateur who enjoys taking photos & occasional videos of anything I see. I mainly dive in the Caribbean. I am looking at 5 lights as of now. Any chance you can tell me if any of these would be appropriate for me & if you would recommend 1 over the other & why?
1) Backscatter HF-1 (hybrid)
2) AOI UIS P1 Ultra (hybrid)
3) Marelux Apollo S
4) Sea & Sea YS-D3 Duo
5) Ikelite Ecko Fiber

TIA! Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[David Haas]

I'd say for your smaller rig and depending on budget either the Marelux Apollo S or Ikelite Ecko.

Apollo S would carry you into a larger system and not be too big on your Olympus PT-059 housing.

Ikelite Ecko would be even lighter and cheaper initially and uses 4 NiMH AAs . Marelux's Apollo S uses two 18650 Lion batteries for a ton of flashes per charge.

Sea and Sea I'm not a fan of although I've had some folks on my trips use them. Battery door contacts can break is one problem I've seen but they do work so ??????

I shot the Apollo S in Florida this April on a Canon R50 mirrorless APS-C larger sensor camera in a Nauticam housing and it was great. TTL worked fantastic, recycle time blazing fast, etc.

You can search the forums for some of the pics (plus sone below) and I only used one being a lazy UW photographer these days.

Backscatter HF-1 is pretty big on the PT-059 and I'm personally not a huge fan of a video light / flash combination but that's me.

You can pop a small modeling light into your housing's cold shoe to aid in focussing.

Good luck!

DH