Salvo versus Halcyon: Solved.

[lamont]

unfortunately, salvo and halcyon are not that big. these are still really not much bigger than mom and pop companies. i've worked for $40B / year companies and we'd blow that much during a turnaround and never miss it. the scale is relative for this. for the size company it is, $100K is huge. if you worked for enron and lost $100K+ from your 401K, would you want Lay's head?

Unlike Enron, Barry turned over what he had and unless my math is wrong is going to wind up paying a lot more than what he took. The remaining issues surround competitive damage and weither or not Barry could have started Salvo or not without the theft and the damage done to Halcyon's business for the time before Barry turned the stuff over. And it appears that JJ will be going after Barry in civil court to try to get those damages out of Barry.

Microsoft lives across a puddle from me in Redmond and they routinely eat corporations much larger than Halcyon simply by moving into their space, incorporating their product into the base O/S and wiping out entire business models. Companies don't recover from that. Hundreds of people lose their jobs. It also really perverts the entire industry because people wind up trying to design business models where the big question is if Microsoft will destroy them or buy them in the end. I consider that worse in effect than the worst damage that Barry could have possibly done in any way you spin it, and I still buy Microsoft products when it makes sense.

 

[lamont]

And also, just to reiterate, none of this drama ultimately will matter. Down the road it will be very difficult to argue that Barry mortally wounded Halcyon and cry "thief" to try to get sales. If Halcyon continues to make lights that have a high rate of defects and continue to take 2 months to turn around lights that need to get fixed, then there'll still be a market for people who can deliver a comparable product with better customer service. If Halcyon fixed its issues with customer service then, honestly, the issue with Barry would probably be enough to swing me over the Halcyon because it was wrong. But ultimately Halcyon's customer service has been unacceptable lately. And calling up and harassing customers who post postive things about competitors on the net is really trying to actively chase me away. Fix all those basic business problems and I might listen to issues about Barry's character and this whole issue.

 

[Meng_Tze]

At least this thread seems far more civil than the TDS one where stirring was done......

 

[cmalinowski]

And also, just to reiterate, none of this drama ultimately will matter. Down the road it will be very difficult to argue that Barry mortally wounded Halcyon and cry "thief" to try to get sales. If Halcyon continues to make lights that have a high rate of defects and continue to take 2 months to turn around lights that need to get fixed, then there'll still be a market for people who can deliver a comparable product with better customer service. If Halcyon fixed its issues with customer service then, honestly, the issue with Barry would probably be enough to swing me over the Halcyon because it was wrong. But ultimately Halcyon's customer service has been unacceptable lately. And calling up and harassing customers who post postive things about competitors on the net is really trying to actively chase me away. Fix all those basic business problems and I might listen to issues about Barry's character and this whole issue.

To continue this thought, it has been thrown around that Barry very much damaged Halcyons supplier and dealer relationships. IF that is true, don't you think that would impact Halcyon's ability to repair products? Especially if they had to come up with an additinal $100k plus in raw materials that were taken. I mean it's got to have an impact. Maybe giant companies can overcome that kind of stuff, but Halcyon is not big. My understanding was the Barry was heavily involved with, if not responsible for, ordering stuff and working with suppliers and dealers. Don't you think as a disgruntled employee, he could have done major harm to those relationships?

 

[cmalinowski]

At least this thread seems far more civil than the TDS one where stirring was done......

didn't the TDS one get closed. I haven't been over there lately to check. I'm becoming tired of it all. I have the attention span of a goldfish...

Notice, from a TOS perspective, I did liken myself to a goldfish but meant no actual harm. Mods, if you feel this is inappropriate, please delete. You may actually get to it before I see and get offended

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

right, and you don't have an axe to grind.

Sure ... and I was honest and upfront about it. I didn't join the board with the express purpose of slamming somebody ... and I didn't pretend to be a disinterested third party and wait for someone else to point out that I had a personal connection to one of the parties involved in the dispute.

Wanna take a vote on whether people would like dive related information from one of the original team members or a dsm who is upset with Halcyon?

Sure ... but there isn't any dive related information being provided in this thread, by Scott or anyone else. So what's that got to do with the conversation?

But to answer the question ... depends on who's doing the asking. Most folks who read this board couldn't care less about cave divers, and wouldn't be able to apply any knowledge they might provide anyway.

Edited by NetDoc to remove a reference of an insult of Bob

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OneBrightGator]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'd rather have dinner with Bob over any original member of the WKPP, at least he'd be cordial.

This whole thing, from start to finish, including this and every other thread like it, sucks.

 

[Uncle Pug]

surlynkid, I won't bother removing your reply, or Bob's question asking what dsm meant, nor even RTodd's post refering to him as a dsm.

What I will do is ask you all to please refrain from name calling here on Scuba Board.

And no, I don't consider Bob's post refering to a certain course of action farm animal stupid to be name calling.

To all... keep it on topic and keep it civil.

 

[lamont]

To continue this thought, it has been thrown around that Barry very much damaged Halcyons supplier and dealer relationships. IF that is true, don't you think that would impact Halcyon's ability to repair products? Especially if they had to come up with an additinal $100k plus in raw materials that were taken. I mean it's got to have an impact. Maybe giant companies can overcome that kind of stuff, but Halcyon is not big. My understanding was the Barry was heavily involved with, if not responsible for, ordering stuff and working with suppliers and dealers. Don't you think as a disgruntled employee, he could have done major harm to those relationships?

Maybe, but I also had to wait 3 months for a light repair way back before all this drama started. I'm pretty sure Barry doesn't have the ability to travel through time... And at some point Halcyon needs to get those relationships repaired and start offering good service and stop blaming Barry for why their service is poor. Are we still going to be hearing about how Barry is responsible for why you get bad service at Halcyon 5 years from now? Where's the cutoff? You can tell that I'm about hitting where I think its reasonable since Halcyon has had the material returned, been paid some restitution and had around a year now (IIRC?) to get things back online.

And really I think that Halcyon should be protecting the customer from all this garbage. Their vendor relationships should be reparable, that's just business. They should be able to take out loans to float the business, and they should be able to document the cost and pass that off to the civil case on Barry and recoup it all if that's the case. As a customer, its way more drama that I want to hear about from someone I'm doing business with as an explanation for why I have to wait for 2 months for a repair.

And, honestly, I don't hate Halcyon at all. I own way too much Halcyon junk to hate them. All of it has basically been flawless with the exception of the inflators and the lights. Most of what Halcyon makes I don't give a damn about customer support because the stuff simply doesn't break. If they go back to plastic inflators (like it looks like they're doing) and they stop making lights, I think everyone would be happier....

 

[paolov]

This whole thing, from start to finish, including this and every other thread like it, sucks.

maybe there is a contest here in Sb where the one who creates a thread with the most posts and most participation will win a prize ! just so happened the "puppies" are the b u t t of the subject.... and the Salvo vs. Halcyon is one of the contestants in the contest even if the thread sucks ....

it still adds to my posts count



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