Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

[Thalassamania]

Nice try Bob but no cookie. Phill Ellis and I both were talking about the Captain and what was being said about him. It's obvious to everyone there are side subjects going on but the OP was a slam on the Captian. The majority of the posts here as well as those in the prior thread are slams on the Captain. Collectively those slams are being made by the "MOB" and they are mean spirited, emotionally based and without a lot of fact.

You've expressed negative views about the Captain yourself. So who's the self-righteous one here?

It really don't think it's me.

I don't know about any side subjects.

The Capt. is in charge, he is responsible for setting rules of behavior on his boat and assuring that the laws are obeyed, not just the laws he agrees with. If that's a slam, so be it.

I am not part of any mob. I am not mean spirited or emotionally based, and so what if I was ... the law was broken, the Capt. was in the wrong, and he tried to stonewall.

 

[PhilEllis]

Nice try Bob but no cookie. Phill Ellis and I both were talking about the Captain and what was being said about him. It's obvious to everyone there are side subjects going on but the OP was a slam on the Captian. The majority of the posts here as well as those in the prior thread are slams on the Captain. Collectively those slams are being made by the "MOB" and they are mean spirited, emotionally based and without a lot of fact.

You've expressed negative views about the Captain yourself. So who's the self-righteous one here?

It really don't think it's me.

I think it is important to get a few things straight on this issue.......

In my post, I was not expressing sympathy with the Captain. I don't like how he acted, I don't like how he responded, and I want to see him change his ways or he is going to be out of business.

What I do have is empathy for the Captain. That is a totally different thing. I see him as a guy that did something wrong, that did something illegal (probably), that did something stupid.......and as someone with the most limited writing skills I have seen of late from an adult. That doesn't change the fact that I feel badly for the position he is in. He is caught and his response to it is one that doesn't work very well in the fast-paced internet communication environment. I was simply suggesting that we should give him a little space and see if he corrects his errors. I have empathy for his position. Having empathy for a wrong-doer is not about forgiving or offering to "give him a pass" for his actions...it is about understanding how bad it would feel to be in his position. And trust me....NONE of us here would like to be put in the position he is in as a result of our mistakes. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

 

[WilDive4Food]

Well, it was put down primarily for fishing. Divers were secondary. The fisherman deface the wreck by just being there with their gear. I disagree with the idea that it is a "park."

Without the debate if it is a "park", a "gymnasium", or any other form of public place.
The point is it is interfering with the natural environment that others may want to enjoy seeing.

Why is it so difficult to continue the thought of, "Take ONLY pics and memories, leave only bubbles!" ? I can remember this being one of the first things taught when I got certified. That statement does not say, well, unless it was put there this way. Or it used to be like this or that, or it will be gone in time. It clearly states to take nothing physical out of the water besides yourself.

:shakehead

I can hear this now...someone is going to mention taking lobster, fish, etc....

 

[OHGoDive]

Well, it was put down primarily for fishing. Divers were secondary. The fisherman deface the wreck by just being there with their gear. I disagree with the idea that it is a "park."

You've stated that it was put down primarily for fishing several times, but from the Navy's website regarding the sinking

http://peos.crane.navy.mil/reefing/default.htm

Why the Navy Supports Artificial Reefing
Use of Navy ships is consistent with the history of success of using steel hulled vessels in State managed programs to build artificial reefs that benefit marine life, commercial and sport fishing, and recreational diving.

they don't seem to assign rank to the reasons that they support putting these ships down.

It seems that since they made specific modifications to the Oriskany for the explicit support of recreational divers, that diving was at least as much a priority for the reefing as any other activity. I think that diving is one of the major reasons for it being there, and "park" seems like a pretty accurate description to me.

 

[fire_diver]

We can certainly ask Mr. Sleppy. By the way, do you want the left of right hand?

I call dibs on the head!

 

[WilDive4Food]

I call dibs on the head!

:lol:

 

[djanni]

I think it is important to get a few things straight on this issue.......

In my post, I was not expressing sympathy with the Captain. I don't like how he acted, I don't like how he responded, and I want to see him change his ways or he is going to be out of business.

What I do have is empathy for the Captain. That is a totally different thing. I see him as a guy that did something wrong, that did something illegal (probably), that did something stupid.......and as someone with the most limited writing skills I have seen of late from an adult. That doesn't change the fact that I feel badly for the position he is in. He is caught and his response to it is one that doesn't work very well in the fast-paced internet communication environment. I was simply suggesting that we should give him a little space and see if he corrects his errors. I have empathy for his position. Having empathy for a wrong-doer is not about forgiving or offering to "give him a pass" for his actions...it is about understanding how bad it would feel to be in his position. And trust me....NONE of us here would like to be put in the position he is in as a result of our mistakes. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

Sorry Phil, I should not have mentioned your name. I did say we both felt sorry for the Captain and I realize you used the word empathy. But in this case I don't think there's a gread deal of difference. Always being politically correct and never offending anyone is difficult to do so I understand your caution and your need to set things straight.

In post #32 I wrote this:
When I read that I picture a young child (Captain) who had their hand in the cookie jar and got caught red handed (or chocolate chip handed) but the angry parent (MOB) just want let up on the scolding and isn't going to be satisfied until the poor kid (Captain) confesses and tells how many cookies were eaten.

I think that is similar to the thoughts you were expressing.

Websters defines Empathy this way: "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner"

 

[Soggy]

Without the debate if it is a "park", a "gymnasium", or any other form of public place.
The point is it is interfering with the natural environment that others may want to enjoy seeing.

How is a 800 ft long aircraft carrier on the bottom of the ocean a 'natural environment!?'

 

[trigfunctions]

I call dibs on the head!

Not if I get there first! I know a dive boat captain who will take me out to the reef, tell me how to get to the statue, and won't mind if I bring the head back on board. He may charge an arm and a leg to come down from Pensacola though.

 

[fire_diver]

Nice try Bob but no cookie. Phill Ellis and I both were talking about the Captain and what was being said about him.

Nobody else is talking about the captain anymore, JUST YOU! Maybe YOU should let the good capt alone.