Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

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PhilEllis:
I have followed this thread very closely and am amazed at the interest in this issue. I am not going to defend the Captain or the individual that took the panel from the "O". I don't know either of them. But a little restraint is due here.

As a shop that is somewhat "local" to this wreck, I have an interest different from many. To some degree, it is an economic interest. I expect I will eventually offer group trips to dive the wreck. So clearly, I probably have an economic interest.

It is fairly clear to me that taking artifacts from this wreck is illegal. It is fairly clear to me that the individual who took the artifacts "backed" into a crime of his own commission, a crime based on an activity that is applauded by many, that is the envy of thousands when done on other wreck, and an activity about which several books have been written. It is fairly clear to me that the Captain is either directly, or indirectly, involved in this "crime" and is deserving of some admonishment.

When the first news of the potential sinking of this wreck became local news, one of the concerns was the lack of dive boats in the Pensacola area to take recreational divers (who represent about 95% of all those that will ever dive the wreck) to the site. There is some fear that the absolute bottom depth of this dive site might cause the insurance companies who insure the recreational boats going to this site to make an exclusion preventing insured trips. Pensacola, for all of its great attractions and great resources, have never been a gigantic "diving" attraction like Panama City. This is for many reasons. Hotels aren't located close to the marinas. Lodging is expensive. The number of "shop" owned boats are limited. This makes air fills and cylinder rentals difficult for larger "group" trips. Many things make Pensacola less "group trip friendly" as to diving. Group trips are essential to the long term viability of any dive operation on the pan handle coast.

This thread has clearly caught the Captain in question quite off guard. He probably participated in an activity not realizing the uproar it would cause. He was then called on the carpet by an entire, large community. The internet has a tremendous power. In fact, many people make their living on the internet. I am one of those. But the internet also has a somewhat dangerous power. It can serve to "swamp" an individual or organization in a way that makes a defense impossible.

The Captain in question is like a deer caught in the headlights of an on-coming car. He doesn't quickly realize what is coming toward him. As a result, he freezes and does all of the wrong things. As I personally read the Captain's responses here, it is clear that for all of the many wonderful traits he probably possesses, written articulation is not one of them. His responses are rather ham-handed. They do him more harm than good. This captain probably runs a fairly good charter boat operation. He satisfies a lot of people and provides a service they like. Like any merchant, he does things that does not satisfy some. We need to be careful not to continue to batter this individual for his mistake. It is likely that we are approaching the point where it may become impossible for him to continue to operate. The local dive stores may be reluctant to channel customers to him because of the potential for bad publicity. Like many in the scuba diving industry of late, he may get disgusted with this whole business and simply throw his hands up. This certainly will not benefit divers. After all, there remains a shortage of dive boat operations in the Pensacola area. I doubt if it will help if the area loses one.

Before we continue to debate what WE think should happen to this Captain because of how WE view his actions and his operation, lets remember that he is a small merchant, trying to make a living. Does he make mistakes? You bet. We all do. I don't understand how further bashing this individual over this mistake helps anyone, except for those that simply want to be heard on the internet.

And please don't respond to me pointing out the law, the restrictions on this particular wreck, its status as a war memorial, or any of the other GOOD reasons why divers should leave this wreck alone. I am smart enough to have read all of the comments already made about these issues. You don't need to tell me again.

Why don't we leave the guy alone and let him think about his actions and change the way he operates. Sometimes, when someone is caught with the "hand in the cookie jar", a little time and space allows the person to self-correct. That usually works quite well. If it doesn't, we can come back in a couple of months and start another thread bashing him. Let's not continue to beat the horse at this time. Anyway, my opinion. Thanks.

Phil Ellis

Hi Phil:

There have been 44 posts since this one of yours and only 1 of them even acknowledges your comments.

Trying to calm down the "MOB" is a total waist of time. Like you, I feel sorry for the poor Captain. These people assume to know way to much and are doing everything they can to ruin him and his business.

To Allison Finch who started this post I say SHAME on you. And shame on all of you for your self-righteous attitudes.

Go diving or something and leave this guy alone. I think he's learned his lesson. I think it's fare to say you have, collectively, raised the level of awareness around this issue so JOB-WELL-DONE, you can stick your noses in the air and be real proud of yourselves!
 
Frog77:
I don't agree with that analogy but thats besides the point.

I will like to ask a question to those guys that think the Oriskany is just a piece of metal junk on the bottom of the sea. Why would you dive it if there is nothing of value to see?

Well.... it will still look like a wreck regardless of what people manage to pry loose.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't dive wrecks for the wrecks. Some people obviously do but in my case I dive them because they're artificial reefs.

R..
 
Soggy:
Regardless, you all are getting your panties all bent out of shape over something that, in the grand (or even small) scheme of things is completely irrelevent. That ship, in the not so distance future, will be a twisted piece of metal on the bottom whether you like it or not. If a few extra missing pieces of the millions of pieces that were already removed ruins your diving experience on the wreck, I think you are missing the point of diving an aircraft carrier.

I've read this in a number of posts. How long is the not so distant future? This seems to infer that it will be just a few years, read 5 -10. Will the ship be a "twisted piece of metal on the bottom" that quickly?
 
Don Janni:
Hi Phil:

There have been 44 posts since this one of yours and only 1 of them even acknowledges your comments.

Trying to calm down the "MOB" is a total waist of time. Like you, I feel sorry for the poor Captain. These people assume to know way to much and are doing everything they can to ruin him and his business.

To Allison Finch who started this post I say SHAME on you. And shame on all of you for your self-righteous attitudes.

Go diving or something and leave this guy alone. I think he's learned his lesson. I think it's fare to say you have, collectively, raised the level of awareness around this issue so JOB-WELL-DONE, you can stick your noses in the air and be real proud of yourselves!
That's a very, VERY broad brush you've got there Don. There have been divergent opinions expressed on this subject ... some of them well-thought out, many of them disagreeing with each other ... MOST of them not even mentioning the vessel captain.

I don't see this discussion in any way resembling a mob. I see it as a group of people wanting to express their views on a controversial action by a fellow diver.

Frankly, since you brought up the topic of self-righteousness ... your post is one of the most self-righteous I've seen in this thread. Basically you're telling people to either agree with you or shut up. I don't think discussion boards would be worth visiting if that attitude were to prevail.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Diver Dennis:
I've read this in a number of posts. How long is the not so distant future? This seems to infer that it will be just a few years, read 5 -10. Will the ship be a "twisted piece of metal on the bottom" that quickly?
I doubt it ... one of our most interesting local wrecks ... the Diamond Knot ... went down in 1947.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Diver Dennis:
I've read this in a number of posts. How long is the not so distant future? This seems to infer that it will be just a few years, read 5 -10. Will the ship be a "twisted piece of metal on the bottom" that quickly?

Have you seen the M/S Antares? It's not too far from the Oriskany.
 
Wow.. this thread is quite interesting and also irritating IMO.
I believe this issue has evolved moreso into a respect issue than a legal/ illegal battle.
Respect for the divers that follow you, allowing each person to see what others have seen while understanding the deterioration of the elements. Of course all wrecks will eventually give way to the environment, but that would be no excuse to help it along and cheat the next group of divers less of a sight.
It would not matter to me if this discussion was over a toilet with a sign saying "Sit here and snap a pic!" If someone took the toilet seat, would it be the same for the next group?
It all should boil down to respecting your fellow divers and allow them to see what you were able to see.
 
WilDive4Food:
Respect for the divers that follow you
Removing stuff they may have been interested in seeing, on a newly sunk ship, simply because it may be disintegrated or buried 20 years from now, disrespects the divers that follow you and is very selfish.
 
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