Regulator sourcing discussion

[chrpai]

I dont sell Scubapro or Atomic.

Doesn't matter to me. I won't be buying anything from you, ever. I actually have a Kia in the driveway and I'm perfectly happy with my Hog D1.

 

[Chris Brown Tech]

Doesn't matter to me. I won't be buying anything from you, ever. I actually have a Kia in the driveway and I'm perfectly happy with my Hog D1.

Choice is a good thing. Im glad you like your Kia. I never said anything bad about them. I used them as a comparison against a Mclaren to demonstrate that there are various levels of quality and manufacture for different people. Whats wrong with that? Why would it piss you off so much as to never want to buy anything from me, ever???

Because you own a Hog reg and a Kia?

 

[chrpai]

I'm not "pissed off", I'm just not impressed with the way you've represented yourself. You've disqualified yourself as a vendor to me.

 

[jasonb751]

About your Kia vs. Mclaren. I'd love to see that comparison. Yeah, the Mclaren is faster, prettier, ans WAAAY more expensive. I will put my paycheck on the fact that the kia will go way farther then the mclaren. So, I guess you could say that the kia since it will go way more miles is a higher quality automobile then the Mclaren. I had a Kia and when I sold it had more than 150k miles, and I didn't spend a dime on it other then oil changes. I'd like to see that in a Mclaren.

I don't own any Hog regs, I am currently diving Atomics. I didn't buy them, they were a gift. I love the Atomics, but if I was to buy with my own money, I promise you the Hogs would be top of the list.

I guess what i'm saying here is price doesn't always equal quality.

 

[Chris Brown Tech]

I'm not "pissed off", I'm just not impressed with the way you've represented yourself. You've disqualified yourself as a vendor to me.

Its just diving! This is an Internet forum. Where people discuss, debate agree and disagree.

theres no requirement to qualify for anything. Yes, I make the choice to register with my name and business and I speak my mind. A lot of people respect me for that and a lot of people don't. I could just not participate like the majority of the industry. I choose to get involved. Diving is a passion for me.

sorry if you don't like how I came across in the thread. That's one big downside of forums. Just like email versus telephone calls versus face to face. So much gets lost without seeing the body language.

 

[HowardE]

Why don't we make this easier, name one that doesn't.



So now were back pedaling?

Without calling anyone names, as you did to Chris in your first post. Which is clearly a personal attack on a well respected shop owner and dive industry professional.

Let's see. The discussion was about regulators. Yes? The discussion wasn't about fins. To even make that point more clear. THIS is the Regulator forum. Not General Scuba. Just Regulators. Almost every dive company buys their masks or fins overseas... wow you got me there.. I'm back pedaling now.

Let's see for Regulators... hmm... Answer: Apeks they assemble and manufacture all of their regulators in Blackburn, England.

 

[redacted]

OK, lets talk some specifics as Im interested in how you compare. Lets start with Apeks. Owned by Aqua Lung as you know, but with over 30 years experience in the Scuba Industry operating totally independently.

They own and operate a state of the art design and manufacturing plant in England that is considered by many in the industry as the best facility in the world for Scuba regulator manufacturing. They employ people in design, manufacturing, sales and marketing that have pay and benefits under European Law. They invest in R&D and operate to ISO9001 standards. How does procuring parts from around the globe and having third party manufacturing facilities stack up to that?

Do you have a manufacturing facility? What do you make? If you do, I stand corrected and kudos to you as I understand the pressures of outsourcing and offshore manufacturing.

And they have designed some really kick-ass face plates and other bling. But I still have not seen much new on the inside that effects performance.

BTW, one way to identify real design changes (hopefully improvements) is to look a scuba regulator related patents.

Here is a link to a few and they will link to others: http://www.google.com/patents/US6817360

There is a good reason why so many scuba regulator manufacturers (distributors) make so many similar, good performing regulators. There just are not many new ideas.

 

[chrpai]

How does procuring parts from around the globe and having third party manufacturing facilities stack up to that?

That's all details on how the sausage is made. If you want to compare the actual result, it seems to stack up fairly well.

Chris, what's interesting is you had a few posts where you said the performance of the regulator was unquestionable and that you understood (in fact described) the market very well. I agree with your assessment in that regard.

You seem to get caught up in all the details of how the sausage is made looking for a reason to not like it. Could it be because you've aligned yourself with other manufacturers?

I purchased a Hog D1 back in April and I've since dived it about 50 times. I've had absolutely no complaints. It's really solid equipment at a wonderful price point and if one of my nearby dive shops was to abandon their ScubaPro/Aqualung and start selling Hog/Edge gear I would thank them for putting their customers first.

 

[Chris Brown Tech]

And they have designed some really kick-ass face plates and other bling. But I still have not seen much new on the inside that effects performance.

BTW, one way to identify real design changes (hopefully improveme

Here is a link to a few and they will link to others: Patent US6817360 - Respiratory gas supplying apparatus - Google Patents

There is a good reason why so many scuba regulator manufacturers (distributors) make so many similar, good performing regulators. There just are not many new ideas.

My question was directed at Chris. Lets see if he responds.

Lets be perfectly clear. Chris stated that the reg manufacturers get their parts from the same places he does. He is also claiming there is a manufacturer that gets their regs made just down the street from where his are made. He also states that his regs must perform as well as the others otherwise their reps would be running around pointing out the Hog deficiencies.

Lets be clear on my position. I have acknowledged there is a market for lower quality regs. I have commended the Edge brand for their success in gaining market share with lower priced products. I am however, questioning the opinion in this thread that a) the quality is the same as Apeks, Scubapro, AquaLung, Atomic, Halcyon, Poseidon and b)that indeed these specific manufacturers have similar manufacturing tactics to Edge.

So, over to Chris and Edge. Lets start with Apeks and their world class manufacturing facility in Blackburn England. In response to my first point - What manufacturing facility does Edge have to compare? Does he have ISO9001 or similar standards. What quality control is in place to ensure similar manufacturing standards? In response to my second point - Which parts do Apeks source from the same chinese / Taiwanese factories as Edge and are they core parts such as brass first stages, chrome plating processes etc?

Once we get a clear comparison with Apeks, Id like to do the same with Poseidon and then Scubapro

I'd also like some more information on the brand that Chris claims falsely markets their reg as Made in USA when it is in fact made down the street from where his are made. Id like to know who that is and to clarify that it is not an Apeks, Scubapro, Haclyon, Poseidon or Atomic reg he is talking about.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I am trying to understand what makes the quality of certain regulators better than the apparent deficient quality of HOG regs. You seem to conceed that they work fine but,,,, they are of lower quality... What criteria do you use as a metric of quality? Having a really good R&D team may help a company produce a great product, but if another manufacturer can apply the results of that R&D into their regulator, then I can't understand how that translate into more quality for the consumer.

If the discussion would include say corrosion resistance, burst pressure of the hoses, tolerance of hoses or fitting, the durability of various wear items, some other objective comparitive aspects, then maybe the "quality" arguement would have some relevance to me.

However, to say the HOG regs work fine but they are of lower quality beause of the location of where they are made....just doesn't resonate well with me.