Redundant buoyancy in warm weather

[RJP]

These GUE Russian divers I dove with here in Truk were right on squared away -btw a correction: they all had modified 30/30 DUI Tropical with a tough duck overlay and turbo sole boots. The only one who ripped a seal was the JJ CCR diver who was doing most of the deep & tight traverses inside the ships (engine room). The others stayed on the outside or did the easy wide open traverses through the cargo holds & superstructures.

Adding turbo soles to a 30/30 seems pretty silly to me. At that point you really are diving "a bag" suit. Allowing your feet to get wet in the standard 30/30 configuration is part of what keeps you from over heating. And then adding a tough-duck overlay? At that point the 30/30 is essentially a cave-cut FLX 50/50. Configured that way it's no longer a tropical drysuit, it's a full-on cold water suit! I can imagine the typical crappy diver thrashing about and crashing into things, but these guys are GUE. What are they doing inside wrecks that they need such a bullet-proof suit? I've taken mine through the sub in Truk and into the tightest areas in most wreck there with no damage to the suit.

With 70 years of beautiful invertibrate soft & hard coral growth, I keep coming back to celebrate the wonderful marine life to see on the outside of the Truk Lagoon Wrecks-- but also to solemnly honor & remember the sacrifice of the merchant men, soldiiers, sailors & aviators who died here (Japanese & US and Chuukese civilians as well). I find that more compelling, more personally worthwhile than "pushing the mainline" on some Florida/Mexico cave system. . .

Yup - a phenomenal wreck dive followed by a phenomenal reef dive... all on the SAME dive!

 

[Kevrumbo]

Adding turbo soles to a 30/30 seems pretty silly to me. At that point you really are diving "a bag" suit. Allowing your feet to get wet in the standard 30/30 configuration is part of what keeps you from over heating. And then adding a tough-duck overlay? At that point the 30/30 is essentially a cave-cut FLX 50/50. Configured that way it's no longer a tropical drysuit, it's a full-on cold water suit! I can imagine the typical crappy diver thrashing about and crashing into things, but these guys are GUE. What are they doing inside wrecks that they need such a bullet-proof suit? I've taken mine through the sub in Truk and into the tightest areas in most wreck there with no damage to the suit.



Yup - a phenomenal wreck dive followed by a phenomenal reef dive... all on the SAME dive!

Okay RJP --fair enough! When you come back here to Truk, dive with Rob McGann manager pf the Truk Lagoon Dive Center at the Truk Stop Hotel -and bring a back-up wetsuit. He will take you into some "tight & squeezey" places on even the popular wrecks that no other dive guides from Blue Lagoon, Truk Odyssey or Thorfinn have ever been to or don't regularly take customers to visit. And unless you're concerned about skin Iso-baric-counterdiffusion, it actually might be alright to use backgas Trimix for suit inflation here in 30deg C tropical waters to help cool off. . .

The GUE JJ CCR diver actually left his drysuit with the dive shop as he flew back home today: Gonna do a post-mortem on it tomorrow!

 

[danvolker]

Dan, the allure of wreck diving is researching the history of the ship, and then actually diving on it and imagining how it all literally went down (especially if it was a WWII warship or cargo ship sunk in action). Going inside is like viewing a 70 year-old time capsule (or in the case of the San Francisco Maru's cargo hold full of unexploded ordnance, literally a time bomb!). A lot of stuff can still be seen: pots & pans, utensils in the kitchen/galley; old electronics tubes & panels in the radio room; bridge helm & engine telegraphs; triple expansion steam propulsion cylinders in the engine room; bulldozers, trucks, Zero Fighters & tanks in the cargo holds; and a gas mask with a set of human remains surrounding it where a crewman stayed at his duty post 'til the very end. . .

With 70 years of beautiful invertibrate soft & hard coral growth on these "artificial reefs", I keep coming back to celebrate the wonderful marine life to see on the outside of the Truk Lagoon Wrecks-- but also to solemnly honor & remember the sacrifice of the merchant men, soldiiers, sailors & aviators who died here (Japanese & US and Chuukese civilians as well). I find that more compelling, more personally worthwhile than "pushing the mainline" in some Florida/Mexico cave system. . .

KEV,
Thanks for the explanation.....So you have a major difference in your wrecks than we do....while we have plenty of wrecks, few went down with people on board, and virtually 100% of ours have been picked clean by the divers that feel it is their right to take stuff out of wrecks they like--portholes, etc. Maybe I can sort of imagine the urge to see the inside of one of your wrecks---though if it was me, I'd be their for the marine life, and I am sure I would waste little time with big penetrations. Here we have wreck divers that spend entire dives, moving around through cleaned out corridors, and missing out on all the wild marine life on the outside of the wreck.

Now we do have some wrecks that the marine life penetrate into....and when that happens, I'm inside with them ..see :

[video=youtube_share;vGB8XNq8QF0]http://youtu.be/vGB8XNq8QF0[/video]
Penetration begins 51 seconds in to the video.
I guess what I am ranting about in the last few posts, is the WHY of being a Cave diver in the ocean..... As you probably know, a lot of my buddies are and were cave divers.....they always tried to get me interested in it....grudgingly I tried a dozen or so cave dives back in the 90's--but in those days I was spearfishing--and cave stunk for this...today I shoot large marine life on video...and cave or inside of wrecks (usually) stinks for this.
What I am thinking is that the kind of diver that insists on wearing a dry suit in the tropics, is a diver for completely different reasons than I am....they could care less about what I get excited about on a dive, and vice versa. It's like I'm a protestant and they are muslims--and they have a fanatical need to get everyone believing exactly the way they do--and wanting all the same things. They even have a "culture" that drives this!!!! When I hear them talk--I just have to rain on their parade.... I can't think of many better examples of fanaticism and choices worse than drysuits in the tropics!!!!

 

[tajkd]

Okay RJP --fair enough! When you come back here to Truk, dive with Rob McGann manager pf the Truk Lagoon Dive Center at the Truk Stop Hotel -and bring a back-up wetsuit. He will take you into some "tight & squeezey" places on even the popular wrecks that no other dive guides from Blue Lagoon, Truk Odyssey or Thorfinn have ever been to or don't regularly take customers to visit. And unless you're concerned about skin Iso-baric-counterdiffusion, it actually might be alright to use backgas Trimix for suit inflation here in 30deg C tropical waters to help cool off. . .

The GUE JJ CCR diver actually left his drysuit with the dive shop as he flew back home today: Gonna do a post-mortem on it tomorrow!

The only way your buddy Rob is gonna cut up RJP's drysuit is with his dive knife. I can tell you we've been in the tightest reef squeezes (chimneys and swim-thrus) with these suits and no cuts. Nor have I had the suit cut inside the tightest of Truk passages even if I didn't get to the good ones that Rob knows. Once again, it's OK that you imagine all these ways that a drysuit is bad to use in warm water but the truth is that restricting your access just isn't one of them.

 

[Kevrumbo]

The only way your buddy Rob is gonna cut up RJP's drysuit is with his dive knife. I can tell you we've been in the tightest reef squeezes (chimneys and swim-thrus) with these suits and no cuts. Nor have I had the suit cut inside the tightest of Truk passages even if I didn't get to the good ones that Rob knows. Once again, it's OK that you imagine all these ways that a drysuit is bad to use in warm water but the truth is that restricting your access just isn't one of them.

No . . .you fail to mention the I-169 Submarine and the traverse through the entire remaining length of the inside pressure hull (and not just simply going down & back up the "chimney" of the open aft hatch).

Can only be done on sidemount doubles --at times with both tanks unclipped and pushed ahead to squeeze through (not even Rob McGann & his beer belly "girth" can get through this particular restriction). And I can tell you: Attempting the traverse on backmount doubles, in a drysuit, and I guarantee you will rip & tear something, as well as getting snagged & stuck outright in a bulkhead hatch restriction. . .

 

[tajkd]

And I can tell you: Attempting the traverse on backmount doubles, in a drysuit, and I guarantee you will rip & tear something, as well as getting snagged & stuck outright in a bulkhead hatch restriction. . .

I guess you know this from experience so I must take your word for it. Was that when you learned that a drysuit was no good for wreck diving?

 

[Kevrumbo]

I guess you know this from experience so I must take your word for it. Was that when you learned that a drysuit was no good for wreck diving?

Yes . . .Last July I had on a 0.5mil skinsuit with cuts over my left shoulder, left lower forearm (right where a drysuit wrist seal would be), and right thigh area as I exited out through a forward bulkhead hatch -a restriction barely one-quarter to one-half open- into the wreckage of the conning tower out to open water (at one point I was stuck fast with both arms pinned at my sides, and my tanks unclipped & floating freely about my head). I'm back now to only take a photo of the restriction I escaped through last time and not go through that experience again. . .


Like I said in a previous post in this thread, the only drysuit I would consider that can take this kind of abuse for this type of advanced sidemount wreck penetration and not get holed or snagged, is a DUI CLX 450 with zip seals for quick change-out repair: But who can tolerate such a thick & heavy cordura trilaminate blend such as the 450 in the ambient heat of the tropics>????

 

[HIGHwing]

When I hear them talk--I just have to rain on their parade.... I can't think of many better examples of fanaticism and choices worse than drysuits in the tropics!!!!

I have a student that I taught to dive dry; she has a medical device physically attached to her most of the time. She can remove the device for diving, but it is her preference not to allow the surgically implanted portion of the appliance to be sumberged in saltwater. So she always dives dry - everywhere.

 

[RJP]

He will take you into some "tight & squeezey" places on even the popular wrecks that no other dive guides from Blue Lagoon, Truk Odyssey or Thorfinn have ever been to or don't regularly take customers to visit.

I'd be up for that - if my wife ever lets me go back! (I'll bring a large tube of aquaseal...)

Do note, that one of my weeks on the Odyssey was an impromptu "Friends and Family" week where there were only six of us on the boat who were all experienced deep wreck/cave penetration folks - with a mission to boldly go where no charter has gone before! To the delight of some crew members, and shaking heads of others. (Though I've no doubt there are tighter spots, especially any "sidemount only" restrictions...)

 

[danvolker]

I have a student that I taught to dive dry; she has a medical device physically attached to her most of the time. She can remove the device for diving, but it is her preference not to allow the surgically implanted portion of the appliance to be sumberged in saltwater. So she always dives dry - everywhere.

Highwing....I am "generalizing".....my comments/observations obviously would not apply to an issue like this. My rant is about the Cave divers that think that Cave Diving protocols and gear should be adopted for all ocean diving...there are so many like this, it is mind boggling.