Redesigning AOW

[Thalassamania]

...

And how would we "benefit from it"? The only product of this misunderstanding that I see on a regular basis is.... the muppets who come to my dive centre flagging around an AOW certification and expecting to be treated like diving royalty. Muppets who argue about having to complete scuba reviews if they haven't been in the water for 4 years. Muppets who can't understand why we put a depth restriction on them. Muppets who take up more than their fair allocation of instructor time in the dive centre because they think they know better.... all because their certification card has the 'A' word on it...

If you're as bothered by the misuse of the word as we are why don't you call your agency to task for it and work toward changing it to something you find more realistic like "Muppet Diver."

 

[DevonDiver]

If you're as bothered by the misuse of the word as we are why don't you call your agency to task for it and work toward changing it to something you find more realistic like "Muppet Diver."

I would, but I thought that the term had already been trademarked by yourself?

 

[Blackwood]

AOW certification would not be indicative of any familiarity with these conditions....only a diver's logbook could substantiate that.

Nor does it necessarily indicate familiarity with depth greater than 18.5m (if my understanding - namely that the 'deep' portion of AOW can be done at 61 feet - is correct).

Nothing?

Apart from the fact that PADI Instructors (like me) have spent hours of my personal time trying to clear up this misunderstanding.

You aren't PADI. You are a rather forthcoming instructor.

And how would we "benefit from it"?

Because it makes it seem like something more than it is.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, technically the AOW Deep Adventure Dive could be completed at any depth below 18m. The manual states:

1. For the purpose of training, a deep dive is defined as a dive conducted between 18 to 30 metres/60 to 100 feet. The maximum depth is 30 metres/ 100 feet and for Junior Divers (12-14 years old) the maximum depth is 21 metres/70 feet.

I think that the idea is to enable instructors with a certain degree of flexibility that may be required by water conditions/topography etc. However, I would agree 100% that there is virtually no benefit from conducting an AOW Deep dive in anything less than 25m. For me, it is 30m or nothing. Of course, the dive isn't just about 'hitting the depth' - it is about developing a responsible diving attitude and a respect for the increased dangers of deeper dives.

Yes...I am not an official PADI spokesman and maybe I do benefit from having had exposure to teaching with other agencies, in addition to PADI. However, I do believe that the 'A' word debate is realistically a minor issue and not something PADI would spend 1000's of dollars on to change (rebranding etc). I think that proper education about these courses (and proper selling of them) is down to individual instructors - and, as we all know, there are good instructors and there are bad instructors. I am not so cynical to believe that PADI, as an organisation, has deliberately branded the AOW course in such a way as to mislead divers.

Again, for me - on the shop floor as it were - selling the AOW course as "something more than it is" would cause me more headaches than benefits.

 

[Blackwood]

However, I do believe that the 'A' word debate is realistically a minor issue.

Definitely.

 

[seaducer]

I'm dropping close to $500 on my most recent scuba course, and the next one in line will run me over $1000. USEFUL classes I have no issue with. I'll save up for those. It appears from the AOW bs and this thread that several people agree AOW is useless....

No, I am sorry, all this thread has done is shown that you and several other people do not understand what it is that AOW is and is for. I am not going to go over it again, we are already at like 23+ pages now.

Just because you do not understand something does not make it useless.

Just because something has no value to you does not make it useless to anyone else.

AOW is not about making someone into a super diving hero. Nor is it marketed as such.

 

[leapfrog]

Yes...I am not an official PADI spokesman and maybe I do benefit from having had exposure to teaching with other agencies, in addition to PADI. However, I do believe that the 'A' word debate is realistically a minor issue and not something PADI would spend 1000's of dollars on to change (rebranding etc). I think that proper education about these courses (and proper selling of them) is down to individual instructors - and, as we all know, there are good instructors and there are bad instructors. I am not so cynical to believe that PADI, as an organisation, has deliberately branded the AOW course in such a way as to mislead divers..

Actually, all of us who are members of PADI are ambassadors for the organization. (Yes, you can call me Mr.Ambassador from now on and Andy is His Excellency):moonerersonally, I am proud to be a member of PADI. As far as I remember help me out here, Andy, that the Royal Navy used to call their sailors "Able Seaman".?So maybe we should suggest that PADI calls them Able Open Water Divers, instead?

A few posts back, Andy brought up the question of driving licences vs. diving licences. Now that's actually a good idea. Let it be regulated by each state, you get a diving licence but if you screw up you will either die, be seriously maimed or the STATE DIVE POLICE can nab you and fine you. Any volunteers for the thousands of jobs that we can now create for Dive Cops? (Andy, I believe you guys call them PLOD?)

 

[ucfdiver]

No, I am sorry, all this thread has done is shown that you and several other people do not understand what it is that AOW is and is for. I am not going to go over it again, we are already at like 23+ pages now.

Just because you do not understand something does not make it useless.

Just because something has no value to you does not make it useless to anyone else.

AOW is not about making someone into a super diving hero. Nor is it marketed as such.

Agreed, it's about making up what should have been taught in OW, allowing you to dive sites you couldn't before, and collecting $200 or so of your money.

 

[Thalassamania]

... However, I do believe that the 'A' word debate is realistically a minor issue and not something PADI would spend 1000's of dollars on to change (rebranding etc). I think that proper education about these courses (and proper selling of them) is down to individual instructors - and, as we all know, there are good instructors and there are bad instructors. I am not so cynical to believe that PADI, as an organisation, has deliberately branded the AOW course in such a way as to mislead divers.

Again, for me - on the shop floor as it were - selling the AOW course as "something more than it is" would cause me more headaches than benefits.

PADI spent many thousands of dollars depauperizing the Advanced Course and creating, for their own profit, the situation that appertains at the moment, they owe it to all of us and to honesty in general to take responsibility for the mess that they created and clean it up!

 

[DevonDiver]

Agreed, it's about making up what should have been taught in OW, allowing you to dive sites you couldn't before, and collecting $200 or so of your money.

I cannot see what arguement anyone could have for the OW course lacking any essential information at an entry level for recreational diving. It is a fine balance between providing critical information and not over-loading the student initially.

PADI opted for a modular course structure, allowing students to complete OW, AOW and Rescue in their own time and to match their own development as divers. They could, I suppose, have culminated these courses into one giant entry level course - but then some of you girls would have only been crying about how it was too expensive as an entry level course.

I think ucfdiver just has a chip on his shoulder because someone once slapped him with the reality that he isn't the 'diving god' he thought he was.... LOL