Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[MrBigfins]

I also forgot to mention the benefit of my partner running out of air, I can simply give them the pony for ascent. I like that significantly more than having an unknown buddy attached to me for both my safety and theirs.

 

[Hartattack]

So I dive a pony on 75% of my dives, of which 100% are recreational. There are multiple reasons I started doing this, but foremost was when I started partnering with my son. At that point it changed from having a responsibility TO my dive buddy into having a responsibility FOR my dive buddy. Other reasons include I have a higher sac rate than average buddies (hence why I use a bigger tank for PLANNED gas usage), insta buddies wandering, redundancy, for travel its easier than going sidemount with a buddy who is unfamiliar with the setup or with a dive operator who isn't prepared for that style of diving.

The minimal amount of planned gas I lose to drag does not outweigh the benefit of having a completely seperate air source.

I've done the calculations and a 19 cf pony is adequate for my dive profiles normally, if not then I would go sidemount. Not only have I done the Calculations, I've practiced usage from over 100' including a safety stop (I know it's not required in OOA situations)

My pony reg is bungled normally so as far as ease of use etc, it's a matter of switching from primary to something I can put in my mouth without using my hands. Even OW divers are trained to switch to an Octo, no? Some other than mounting or slinging a bottle, what other "training" is required for a newer diver when using a pony?

A pony is used for EMERGENCY situations, why the heck would you use it in gas planning? It's ONLY to be used when the plan has been shot in the head Well and on the last dive of a trip since I have to empty it anyway before traveling. But at that point I PLAN to use it and only use it at the end of the dive.

NONE of the reasons why I use a pony means I don't understand proper gas planning or management. It simply means I weighed my risks and options and chose which route was best for ME. I'm not so arrogant to assume whats best for me is what's best for others.

Mrbigfins,

You make an excellent point here, and having that responsibility with your son would be paramount. E.g., a thinking diver and one who is putting the team (you and your son) above all else, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. Where I disagree is members of SB just saying "Take a pony bottle, if you are worried" to a new diver who might have had lousy instruction and now is getting even worse advice, or a diver that might not know how to plan a dive with reserve or a redundant gas source.

On the other hand, you are planning for your gas consumption and for contingencies with your buddy, which IMHO is fantastic. Since I created the thread, my advice in this situation would be to practice these drills with your son, so you both understand what to do in an OOG emergency, and I am pretty sure you are doing that.

 

[scubaozy]

Am only making the simple point that carrying redundancy isn't rocket science. For simple clear warm water diving to 25m/80' it's probably not necessary. For 35m/120' in cold water it's prudent to carry redundancy.

I'd sooner be arguing the toss with you alive than wishing I had the right kit and possibly drowning.

Sometimes when I drive on a German Autobahn with 100mph, I get this feeling that a tire will detach or some other moving part will fail and what would happen to me. It sends chills to my spine. Then I convince my self that I have advanced driving training and I had everything serviced properly, I would trust the equipment and everything is going to be fine, so the fear goes away. You think I am too ignorant and I should wear a crash helmet and body armor?

 

[Wibble]

Sometimes when I drive on a German Autobahn with 100mph, I get this feeling that a tire will detach or some other moving part will fail and what would happen to me. It sends chills to my spine. Then I convince my self that I have advanced driving training and I had everything serviced properly, I would trust the equipment and everything is going to be fine, so the fear goes away. You think I am too ignorant and I should wear a crash helmet and body armor?

Not at all. I'm sure we both agree in reality.

Just as I'm sure you'd use a Land Rover to go somewhere off-road (and a Land Cruiser if you want to come back!) rather than a saloon car. Tools for the job. Do need some training and practice too.

 

[Hartattack]

I also forgot to mention the benefit of my partner running out of air, I can simply give them the pony for ascent. I like that significantly more than having an unknown buddy attached to me for both my safety and theirs.

Also,

Since you are already taking a team approach to diving, I will throw in a little pitch for a fundamentals course. I think both you and your son would enjoy it. If interested, send me a pm, and I'd be happy to recommend some instructors. I can recommend some good communities as well.

 

[MrBigfins]

Sometimes when I drive on a German Autobahn with 100mph, I get this feeling that a tire will detach or some other moving part will fail and what would happen to me. It sends chills to my spine. Then I convince my self that I have advanced driving training and I had everything serviced properly, I would trust the equipment and everything is going to be fine, so the fear goes away. You think I am too ignorant and I should wear a crash helmet and body armor?

I drag race and wear a helmet ‍ should I not because I've maintained everything properly? It comes down to inherent risk in an activity and your PERSONAL threshold for risk. I've always pushed the envelope in regards to my recreational activities, but I do so in an educated manner and mitigate risk as much as I reasonably can

 

[MrBigfins]

Mrbigfins,

You make an excellent point here, and having that responsibility with your son would be paramount. E.g., a thinking diver and one who is putting the team (you and your son) above all else, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. Where I disagree is members of SB just saying "Take a pony bottle, if you are worried" to a new diver who might have had lousy instruction and now is getting even worse advice, or a diver that might not know how to plan a dive with reserve or a redundant gas source.

On the other hand, you are planning for your gas consumption and for contingencies with your buddy, which IMHO is fantastic. Since I created the thread, my advice in this situation would be to practice these drills with your son, so you both understand what to do in an OOG emergency, and I am pretty sure you are doing that.

I don't agree with it as bandaid that isn't thought out. It's not a fixall, but it is a tool that has a place in recreational. It's a PITA to travel with, but the peace of mind far outweighs the aggravation.

I do make him practice drills with me. However he's a vacation diver mostly while I'm a bit more passionate about diving. But I'll take what I can get with him. I've taught him to be safety conscious since an early age with everything from white water rafting, to shooting, to diving. So for a young man he does pretty well with it. Alas now he's in college and I get even less opportunities for those moments with him for now.

 

[elan]

My vote, unnecessary.

A diver should be able to calculate what’s on their back (or side) and set aside a minimum gas (reserve) for an emergency in their dive plan. The added weight, drag, and configuration would hinder a recreational diver more in an emergency than it would help.

All dive plans and ideas are welcome.

Side-note: I do not dive solo, so there could be a reason for those folks, but I’d like to keep this in the normal rec realm of scuba.

It is necessary in cold water diving. If your primary free-flows you have a redundant supply. Getting on buddy’s octo is a horrible idea as it can easily trigger their reg free flow.
Doubles are possibly a better tool but its a totally different level.

 

[Hartattack]

It is necessary in cold water diving. If your primary free-flows you have a redundant supply. Getting on buddy’s octo is a horrible idea as it can easily trigger their reg free flow.
Doubles are possibly a better tool but its a totally different level.

I disagree, check out the rest of the thread to see my point of view and examples. (I also dive the Great Lakes as my local spot) The cold water argument is moot, IMHO.

 

[tursiops]

It is necessary in cold water diving. If your primary free-flows you have a redundant supply. Getting on buddy’s octo is a horrible idea as it can easily trigger their reg free flow.
Doubles are possibly a better tool but its a totally different level.

This is really the point. which the OP refuses to discuss. He'd rather argue that the free-flow should not happen.