Recent OOA incident in Cozumel, and questions for the experts

[B_D]

I feel compelled to add a few comments here. I was the dive buddy of the original poster on the dive, and this event has really bothered me since it happened. Here’s some additional facts:

Me and my buddy and the other people on our boat arrived at the resort on Saturday, and did shore dives to get properly weighted and ready for boat diving Sunday. On Sunday our first dive was not a deep dive, but a check-out dive, at Chankanaab, where our max depth was only 47 feet (the dive op's choice, not ours). Then Monday, our 1st dive was more challenging, at 81 feet.

On Tuesday, the 2 newbies arrived and hopped on our boat, and announced to all this was their 1st boat dive and 1st ocean dive. The newbies never got a check-out dive as the rest of us did – the dive op just stuck them on our boat, which of course was the economical choice for the dive op. No idea if they recommended the newbies hire a private DM for the day or not.

I did not see the DM give them any special instructions at all on the way to the site – just the same very basic briefing we all got, as a group. I was surprised how casual the DM was. My take is that the newbies didn’t have any idea what they were in for, and didn’t know what to ask - they figured it must be ok if the DM was taking them with us.

Once we were down, my buddy and I were watching the newbies way, way more than the DM, but unfortunately we never checked their air. The DM checked the newbies air only once, about 10 minutes into the dive. I really wish I had taken the initiative to go over and check it myself a few times, but I didn’t. I noticed and was surprised how little attention the DM paid to the newbies the entire dive – he hardly ever even looked back at them (he was in the lead position, followed by me, buddy, and the newbies).

I understand fully the posters who assess the majority of the blame on the new divers rather than on the DM – and I would agree with you if the newbies had even 10 or 15 ocean dives under their belt – but they didn’t. They were so new, they didn’t know what they didn’t know. I think they were so overwhelmed with the whole experience of being in clear water, with tons of fish, coral and life around them, and seeing a huge drop off into the blue to their left, that they just didn’t think to check their pressure gauge. So I assess 80% of the blame/responsibility for newbie #1’s OOA and newbie #2’s attempted uncontrolled 70 foot ascent, on the DM for not giving them a thorough briefing and for not watching them, especially 20 minutes into the dive when they might have started to run low (he was OOA at around 25 minutes into the dive).

After that dive, I think the OOA diver learned his lesson – I saw him check his pressure frequently on subsequent dives. The DM paid more attention to him also.

I learned a lesson also – I am going to be more proactive in following my instincts concerning new divers, a lot more vigilant in watching for signs of trouble in other divers, and I may even proactively check new divers’ pressure during dives, if the DM is not. I hope I never get in another situation like this again, but I do feel better prepared if it ever happens again.

 

[DandyDon]

Welcome to SB, BD

Live, learn, and try to help others - but don't get too caught up in protecting others from themselves. In a similar situation, you might object to the OP taking newbies on your boat and/or on that dive, but that can backfire.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Thanks for sharing your comments, B_D.

You know, after reading your take and re-reading spartan rugger's post, I get the impression that your Cozumel DM was pretty inexperienced. Oh, well. I bet he learned something from this incident, too.

I learned a lesson also – I am going to be more proactive in following my instincts concerning new divers, a lot more vigilant in watching for signs of trouble in other divers, and I may even proactively check new divers’ pressure during dives, if the DM is not. I hope I never get in another situation like this again, but I do feel better prepared if it ever happens again.

I think one skill that experienced divers pick up from diving around lots of newer divers is being able to identify problems early on. This enables them to intervene before a minor annoyance escalates into a dangerous situation. My dive buddies (all certified as DMs or higher) and I frequent a dive site that's used for a lot of OW training dives. We can be completely engrossed in a conversation amongst ourselves about politics, religion, or Charlie Sheen's goddesses yet still catch newbies walking past us with a loose tank camband, a trapped octo hose, or a twisted pull-dump cord. I figure it's better that we help them out on land before their poor DMs have to fix things in the water for them.

On a few occasions, we've had confused students inadvertently join our dive team underwater. It's particularly fun when it's a night dive...and the newbie wants to check your identity...by shining his light in your face. On the couple of times when a newbie latched onto me, I tried to communicate to him that I didn't know him ("Where's your buddy?) and instructed him to surface to look for his group. A few months ago, our dive group had a guy pull something like this with an added twist. This time the lost diver got my buddy's attention and waved his SPG, which showed 300 psi remaining! (FYI, we were at a depth of 60 fsw at the time.) Needless to say, this forced us to abort our dive to make sure that the LOA diver made it to the surface OK.

 

[Mike]

I feel compelled to add a few comments here. I was the dive buddy of the original poster on the dive, and this event has really bothered me since it happened. Here’s some additional facts:

Me and my buddy and the other people on our boat arrived at the resort on Saturday, and did shore dives to get properly weighted and ready for boat diving Sunday. On Sunday our first dive was not a deep dive, but a check-out dive, at Chankanaab, where our max depth was only 47 feet (the dive op's choice, not ours). Then Monday, our 1st dive was more challenging, at 81 feet.

On Tuesday, the 2 newbies arrived and hopped on our boat, and announced to all this was their 1st boat dive and 1st ocean dive. The newbies never got a check-out dive as the rest of us did – the dive op just stuck them on our boat, which of course was the economical choice for the dive op. No idea if they recommended the newbies hire a private DM for the day or not.

I did not see the DM give them any special instructions at all on the way to the site – just the same very basic briefing we all got, as a group. I was surprised how casual the DM was. My take is that the newbies didn’t have any idea what they were in for, and didn’t know what to ask - they figured it must be ok if the DM was taking them with us.

Once we were down, my buddy and I were watching the newbies way, way more than the DM, but unfortunately we never checked their air. The DM checked the newbies air only once, about 10 minutes into the dive. I really wish I had taken the initiative to go over and check it myself a few times, but I didn’t. I noticed and was surprised how little attention the DM paid to the newbies the entire dive – he hardly ever even looked back at them (he was in the lead position, followed by me, buddy, and the newbies).

I understand fully the posters who assess the majority of the blame on the new divers rather than on the DM – and I would agree with you if the newbies had even 10 or 15 ocean dives under their belt – but they didn’t. They were so new, they didn’t know what they didn’t know. I think they were so overwhelmed with the whole experience of being in clear water, with tons of fish, coral and life around them, and seeing a huge drop off into the blue to their left, that they just didn’t think to check their pressure gauge. So I assess 80% of the blame/responsibility for newbie #1’s OOA and newbie #2’s attempted uncontrolled 70 foot ascent, on the DM for not giving them a thorough briefing and for not watching them, especially 20 minutes into the dive when they might have started to run low (he was OOA at around 25 minutes into the dive).

After that dive, I think the OOA diver learned his lesson – I saw him check his pressure frequently on subsequent dives. The DM paid more attention to him also.

I learned a lesson also – I am going to be more proactive in following my instincts concerning new divers, a lot more vigilant in watching for signs of trouble in other divers, and I may even proactively check new divers’ pressure during dives, if the DM is not. I hope I never get in another situation like this again, but I do feel better prepared if it ever happens again.

Thanks for posting this additional information. After reading it, it confrims for me my initial blame for the dive op in all this.

The only thing I don't understand is the lack of posting the name of the diive op. I don't understand the concept of the dive community protecting dive ops instead of fellow divers.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

I think I'll add a synopsis of this incident to my "things that have happened to new divers that shouldn't" resource. I find real-world incidents an excellent method to open the eyes of new divers to many of the pitfalls of scuba; the lessons others learn the hard way seem to stick. This type of "Too much, Too soon" incident deserves frequent reinforcement, as the consequences of poor decisions by new divers can be severe.

I'm in the camp of personal responsibility, provided folks receive excellent, caring instruction, and are imbued with the necessary attitude to go forth and become good, safe, conservative divers. Armed with all the basic necessary tools, it is then incumbent upon themselves to apply the lessons they've learned.

Regards,
DSD

 

[boulderjohn]

You know, after reading your take and re-reading spartan rugger's post, I get the impression that your Cozumel DM was pretty inexperienced. Oh, well. I bet he learned something from this incident, too.

This was one of the reasons that I abandoned the operator I used before my present one. We did a two tank dive. The first one was safe, all right--we cruised on the outside of the wall at Palancar Caves, looking at all the beautiful formations from a distance as we drifted in the current. (If you know the site, you will know how ridiculous that is.) On the second dive, he went into the water first to check the current and make sure we were going the right way. As soon as we descended, I saw he was wrong. He insisted on leading us into the current until another dive group met us going the other way. He then turned us. We were off the reef in a couple of minutes, drifting over sand.

Furious, I went to the office to complain. The office explained that they were short of divemasters that day, so they had dipped into a pool of new and unattached DMs who are on call for just such an occasion. (They gave me my money back, BTW.)

So, having an inexperienced DM is a very real possibility--he might not even have been a regular employee of the operator.

Thanks for posting this additional information. After reading it, it confirms for me my initial blame for the dive op in all this.

As much as I agree that individual divers are responsible for their dives, I also feel that when a place like Cozumel regularly takes total control of all aspects of the dive, thus gaining a reputation for doing so, then new and inexperienced divers will go there expecting that to happen. I therefore believe they end up, in something of a vicious circle, having a responsibility to either live up to that reputation or make it very clear from the start that they will not.

 

[theduckguru]

1st, people aren't born with common sense, 2nd is you can't buy experience, 3rd, ounce of prevention is worth---.

 

[k ellis]

Hi,

This incident happened last week while I was in Cozumel. I'll first outline the facts, and then add a question or two at the end for the experts to discuss. I have about 50 dives in so do not consider myself highly experienced, and have never had or seen anything "unusual" happen on a dive before. Here's what happened:

We dove with a very reputable dive resort in a group of about 8 people, most appeared experienced except for a young married(?) couple who were just certified back home and are now on their FIRST ocean dive. Even before we get in the water, they have a problem: one of them is leaning over the side of the boat, puking. Not sure whether it's because of seasickness or nerves, but either way, not a good start to the dive. Our first dive is Palancar Bricks, and the dive profile calls for a depth of
85'. They immediately had trouble getting down off the surface, were inefficient swimmers, not good buoyancy control, etc. My buddy and I are cautious divers and were keeping an eye on them; the DM (a young guy) was not, and had only checked their air once during the dive. After about 25 minutes into the dive, the new guy was diving deeper than everyone else, down to 90' or maybe 100'. Suddenly, he discovers he's completely out of air. I was hovering about 20' above him and saw him check his gauge, and then fin fast to the DM who immediately starts giving him air from his octopus. They start heading up together slowly. The other new diver, the woman, doesn't know what to do. My buddy signals to her to stay with us and continue the dive with the rest of the group, and I check her air and she has 1000 lb left. No problem, except she suddenly panics, decides she's going up, and starts kicking hard toward the surface. My buddy signals to me that she is bolting, and I swam up about 10 feet and caught her by the fins and stopped her ascent. Holding on to her BC the whole time so she doesn't try to swim away again, we joined up with the DM and the new guy, and go up together and do a safety stop. The DM takes they guy to the surface, and I keep my hand on the woman's BC and take her up. When we surface I took my reg out so I could calm her down and tell her what to do next. She sees me do that, and takes hers out of her mouth too. She immediately swallows a big mouthful of water and pukes it right back out. I get her reg back in her mouth and inflated her BC. By this time, she is sick and physically exhausted. My buddy and I drag her back to the boat ladder, and get her fins and weights off. She is so spent she can't even climb onto the boat, so one of the DMs on the boat drags her up the ladder. It felt like a close call that could easily have ended differently, and badly. (She was ultimately OK, although did not do any more diving the rest of the week.)

Now here are the questions for the experts:

How much blame for this do you put on the DM for not keeping the new divers close to him and checking their air frequently? (Obviously the new diver should have been checking also, so primary fault lies with him.) The DM was definitely aware that they were novices.

Is the DM at fault for putting the inexperienced divers at unnecessary risk by including them in a group of more experienced divers and taking them 90 feet down on a wall, in a current, for their first dive? Would a simple 40-50 foot reef dive have been more appropriate? My sense is that they were so new to diving that did not even realize the risks of that dive, much less know how to get out of trouble. Whose job is it to assess risk, in that situation?

What else could/should have been done by the more experienced divers in the group prior to (or during) that dive, knowing they had two novice divers in the group?

Thanks for your insight.

Sparty

Ok have not read all 37 replies but I just wanted to chime in on the question directly.
If you bolted up to catch her (I have done this too so I cant say much) then you put yourself at risk of DCI but it shows how caring of a person you are too. It means alot that you would be willing to risk your own safety for a stranger.

As to the dive master well one reason they ask for C-Cards is because as a certified diver even a new diver you are expected to know enough to at least check your air. With this in mind a dive master leading a tour of say 8 divers. If he went diver to diver checking everyones air and well being he would not have much of a tour simply by the amount of time it would consume to constantly monitor the air consumption.

The puking on the side of the boat and the knowledge that they are newer divers is a major red flag though however not a 100 percent guarantee that they are scared. It could have been the sea sickness but it definately was something to take note on. Id of probably started a suttle conversation to see if they were really up to the dive myself.

I just shake my head though at how you go to some places and show them a C-Card and say ok were going to 80 feet or more (Take the spiegel grove at just over 100 feet) and dont always ask for an AOW card. To me thats scarey to think someone who did just a handful of skills and 4 pool dives at less then 20 feet then 4 open water dives at about 20 feet would even consider going to 80 feet on diver number 5. I guess this is why so many places like in Florida ask for an AOW to dive deeper then 60 feet

 

[ShootinSquid]

K Ellis - 'ya hit it n the head. The Scuba Certification says you passed a set of skill tests...ON THE DAY OF PASSING! Nothing says that people will remember those skills after a week...moreso after a year!

Many of the resort or "vacation" places don't really bother to ask for details of past dives...why? I think (cynically)....because they will probably never see you again...and as long as they bring you back alive, they are fine. Also, if you did something "cool" like go down to 80+ as a new OW...they think you will be happier and their tip will be bigger. Sounds crazy....I know...but I really believe that to be truth. Is it right? Of course not. Does it happen. I bet!

It is up to Each Diver to monitor themselves. I check my air each time I make a direction change or depth change. I may look like I'm checking the air quite frequently...but I'd rather side with caution than be OOA. Also, for air conservation, my instructor for AOW taught us the 8-count breathing (4-in and 4-out). I find that I breathe calmer, use less air and actually calm myself.

Finally, in Key Largo a couple weeks ago, we did the Speigel Grove...with a really strong current! Frankly...yes...you can go down to over 120' ...but why would you? The superstructure (& all the cool stuff) is between 62-90'. The rest is a steel hull. 'ya see one square foot of steel hull...'ya seen 100'. The lower you go, (unless you really need to look at the screws & rudder) the only thing you do is shorten your bottom time.

As to the puking, we took a smaller dive boat out to the Speigel Grove. Seas were 3-5' with 8-10 sec swells. On the way there, my wife was chumming like hell. She then fell asleep for about 10 minutes as we were coming up to the site. She woke up, geared up and we went diving. All was good. She said she had an awesome dive and was really happy! We all asked her about it later....and why she decided to go diving after puking rather than stay on the boat.
Her answer was totally honest - she said she preferred to be underwater 'cause it was calmer, and that she probably couldn't have handled bobbing up and down on the boat. So......a good barf before a dive soesn't necessarily mean you can't go diving.

 

[k ellis]

You know, after reading your take and re-reading spartan rugger's post, I get the impression that your Cozumel DM was pretty inexperienced. Oh, well. I bet he learned something from this incident, too.

I have actually been on a dive where there were 2 dive masters with under 80 dives total for the life time. Thats inexperienced divers though they really did give it their best foot forward. I got to help them out a little keep up with the group and they were appreciative. I just loved helping out 2 attractive DMs