Recent OOA incident in Cozumel, and questions for the experts

[Bob DBF]

Sorta like when I get on a ride at Disney. I have no idea if the thing is going to crash and burn, but I trust that the "professionals" would not put me into a dangerous or out of control situation.

Disney: You have to be this tall to go on this ride.
Caribbean: You have to pay to go on this ride.
You are not in Kansas anymore and it behooves you to understand how there system works because you no longer have OSHA and a million lawyers to insure your safety, or bankrupt the operation if they don't.


The problem with "professionals" is that you need to know what their duties and responsibilities are which may vary from one place to another, they may not be responsible for the things you want them to be. I'll go into a dangerous or out of control situation but not because anyone else tell me to or tries to lead me there. My life, my choice


Bob
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"the future is uncertain and the end is always near"
Jim Morrison

 

[TSandM]

This is the kind of situation where you can point fingers in all kinds of directions, but without knowing the specifics, you can't assign "blame".

The OOA diver and his companion (I'll call them "victims") may very well not have been well-taught in their original class, and there may have been little emphasis on pressure checking and on buddy skills. We all know this can be true. But it's also possible that they were quite overwhelmed by a totally new environment and simply FORGOT their training, or that a bit of narcosis was playing a role and making them less rational and less diligent than they might otherwise have been.

The dive op may have been at fault for placing the divers on the boat where they were, but then again, the divers may have told them that THEY were fine with it, and sure they could handle the described dives. We just don't know.

Although I do not in any way subscribe to the idea that a DM is responsible for things divers should do for themselves (like checking their gas), I do think a guide who KNOWS he's got a couple of newbies on his plate should probably stay close to them, and watch them carefully. We all know the signs of rapid gas consumption -- shoot, one of my OW STUDENTS this week said to me, "I breathe about three times for your one." We also know how fast newbies blow through air on deep dives. But the final responsibility for air-checking is the diver's.

I applaud the efforts of the OP to prevent an accident, and although I personally would not STOP a bolting diver underwater, I would also try to slow them. Air embolism is frequently fatal, and if you can slow people enough that they HAVE to breathe before they surface, you may save a life.

This story is yet another confirmation, to me, of my personal belief that Cozumel is by no means the perfect dive destination for brand new divers. The combination of depth and current, as well as the need for blue water descents and ascents, does not add up to me to a good sum for someone who is brand new. And it appears that there are not enough new divers for dive ops to offer specific boats or dives to benign sites. We certainly did some lovely, easy dives in Coz, but the first dive of the day was always deep and often in strong current. I just think people have no real concept of what the diving will be like, and are sometimes simply overwhelmed by challenges that they are neither expecting or prepared for. Being able to see helps, but doesn't negate the problems.

 

[boulderjohn]

This story is yet another confirmation, to me, of my personal belief that Cozumel is by no means the perfect dive destination for brand new divers. .

I think this is the real problem.

Cozumel is advertised as a dive Paradise (and I like it a lot myself), and it is easily accessed from the U.S. Consequently, a lot of divers go there on their first dive vacations. I did myself. When you go there, you will find that, unless you really go out of your way to make special arrangements--and that will cost you--all dives are 2 tank dives starting with a deep site and finishing with a shallow site. The site in this incident, Palancar Bricks, is one of the shallowest and easiest of the first dive sites.

Another problem is that some people go through air on their first deep dives at rates that are hard to predict or even imagine.

I recently taught an AOW class of 2 students, and in the first couple of dives saw that one of them went through his air pretty quickly. We discussed it and made a rough idea of his SAC rate, which was high. Before we did the deep dive, we carefully made a plan for a multi-level dive. We would stay at the deepest level until one of them reached a certain PSI level, then ascend to a shallower depth until a certain level, and then finish the dive at a shallow depth. We made rough estimates of how long we would be at each depth. When we got to the deepest level, though, we had to ascend almost immediately--he had already hit the target PSI. We were only at the next level briefly when the same thing happened. To cut to the chase, we finished the dive with him at 400 PSI. His SAC rate for that dive was well over 2.0, far more than we estimated based on his previous dives. Amazingly enough, he reported feeling calm throughout the dive, and I saw no sign of panicked breathing.

If he had been on that dive on his own instead of in a class with a careful dive plan demanding an early SPG check, I guarantee he would have gone OOA at depth.

 

[Maggy]

If I was newly certified, I would never agree to do such a deep dive. I would specifically have asked the dive shop for an easy shallow dive or I would not have gone out with that group or dive operation. Would definitely had hired a private DM if it was not possible to go with the group.

I think that Cozumel is kind of hard for beginners, except some of the more shallower dives, that was easier and just amazing. You don't have to be outside the wall when you are that new. And the current dosen't make it any easier. I still consider Cozumel to be one of the best places I have been diving, but I'm glad I had over 30 dives at least before I dove there.

It's now almost a year since I dove, and I'm hiring a private DM for my next dive, just to get "back in the water comfortably" again. And I have almost 50 dives now.

Glad everything went well this time.

 

[TSandM]

I recently taught an AOW class of 2 students, and in the first couple of dives saw that one of them went through his air pretty quickly. We discussed it and made a rough idea of his SAC rate, which was high. Before we did the deep dive, we carefully made a plan for a multi-level dive. We would stay at the deepest level until one of them reached a certain PSI level, then ascend to a shallower depth until a certain level, and then finish the dive at a shallow depth. We made rough estimates of how long we would be at each depth. When we got to the deepest level, though, we had to ascend almost immediately--he had already hit the target PSI. We were only at the next level briefly when the same thing happened. To cut to the chase, we finished the dive with him at 400 PSI. His SAC rate for that dive was well over 2.0, far more than we estimated based on his previous dives. Amazingly enough, he reported feeling calm throughout the dive, and I saw no sign of panicked breathing.

Man, if I ever read an argument for the utility of gas management and planning, this is it!

 

[Karibelle]

I'm glad I dive with a dive op in Cozumel that would never put me in a situation like this. Yes, I'm being selffish here, but I don't ever want to be put on a dive with 6 experienced divers and 2 virgins. A dive op who would put two virgin divers with my nice experienced divers would frankly piss me off. That's a total waste of my money as far as I'm concerned. My dive will be cut short, that's a guarantee just based on air usage from the virgins if they even make it through the dive.

What if the dive OP put your 6 nice experienced divers on the boat with the two virgins, then chose to go to Gardens instead of Bricks, and briefed the group that the newbies were going to dive at 60 feet or above, advising them that if they chose to they could simply stay atop the reef at 25 to 40 feet. They are certified divers and a buddy pair, they are qualified to make that dive. The group would exit the boat on the shore side of the reef, get to the sandy bottom, DM would make sure everyone is "okay" and then head over the reef and down the wall to the planned depth for the group. The virgins, as noted before, would dive their own plan within the general outline by the DM. Your 6 nice experience divers would ascend in buddy pairs as they (the pair) became low on air. If the newbies needed the DM to remain with them at 60 feet, is there any reason he couldn't do that, and just stay above your 6 at 80 feet or whereever they were? I doubt it.

Always more than one way to skin a cat. Would I have taken two people on their first ocean dives to Bricks? Probably not. Would I like to have freshly minted divers who were MY students say "you know, I'm really not comfortable with this profile for my first boat dive." Of course. IF THEY SAID that, would I like it if there was no one on the boat who verbalized/looked/acted pissed off because the "virgins" were going to ruin their dive? Sure. Would I be surprised if, despite the fact that I repeatedly tell my students that it is their right and their responsibility to speak up when placed in a situation like that, they chose not to because of peer pressure? No, I would not be surprised. Disappointed maybe, and feeling a bit like I'd failed them. And cheering for them if they DID get past the peer pressure which is so prevalent on a dive boat.

In a perfect world, the dive OP would separate divers based on experience, and then the DM would select a site and a profile that was appropriate for all the divers on his boat, and then all divers would agree, or not, and a dive plan would be sprouted. As a more experienced diver, sometimes it might be useful for me (or you or whoever) to say "you know, we have some new divers on the boat. could we go to Dalila instead for this first dive?"

kari

 

[Mike]

It doesn't have to be a perfect world for a dive op to separate dive boats by experience level. It just has to be the right dive op, the one you choose based on how they operate, instead of chosen because they have the lowest prices.

In a perfect world the DM wouldn't isolate the two vigins from the group, diving above and beyond himself. In a perfect world the virgins would be on an appropriate site together with a DM who was there to watch out for them and the other newbie divers on that dive.

What should have happened I think is the virgins should not have been on any morning dive in Cozumel because unless there is something special going on (such as a newbie group specifically going out to any easy site) morning dives are typically deep dives.

The dive op should have simply told the virgins that they should go on an afternoon dive for their first dive which would be routinely already be a shallow dive. The dive op should have had the DM check them out on that dive and evaluate them for what boat they get to go on the next day. If the virgins refused then the dive op should have pushed for them to hire a private DM to go along on that morning dive. If the virgins refused the dive op then should have either shrugged his shoulders and said your'e certified, do what you want at your own risk, or he could have even refused them service at that point.

 

[Karibelle]

What should have happened I think is the virgins should not have been on any morning dive in Cozumel because unless there is something special going on (such as a newbie group specifically going out to any easy site) morning dives are typically deep dives.

Morning dives are typically in the morning. Other than that, there is nothing that says the dive must be to 85 feet. There's also nothing that says a group can't dive at the same site with a slightly different profile in mind. There are lots of sites in Cozumel that are wonderful dives that have a hard bottom (as opposed to the wall) and a maximum depth suitable for newer, less experienced divers. There are also lots of ways for a DM to provide service to a single group of divers who may not all be exactly the same as each other.

I understand that YOUR experience with the operation you use may differ, but not all dive shops are like that.

kari

 

[boulderjohn]

In a perfect world, the dive OP would separate divers based on experience, and then the DM would select a site and a profile that was appropriate for all the divers on his boat, and then all divers would agree, or not, and a dive plan would be sprouted.

It doesn't have to be a perfect world for a dive op to separate dive boats by experience level. It just has to be the right dive op, the one you choose based on how they operate, instead of chosen because they have the lowest prices.

With as many dive ops working in Cozumel as there are, only a handful can really do this.

It requires first of all a large number of boats. The dive op I used for the first years I went to Coz had only two boats--6 packs. (That is true of many of the operators on that island.) On a typical day they would have about 2/3 to 3/4 of their customers in the inexperienced range, so there was no way they could have an experienced boat and an inexperienced boat without telling some of their customers to go somewhere else. In a comptetitive atmosphere like that, it would be financial suicide to do that. I stopped using that operator because I grew tired of having every one of my dives defined by the least experienced diver in the group. It seemed like every dive someone would say, "This is my first dive trip after my certification, so...."

So I switched to a dive operator who had a lot of boats. They made a big deal about their ability to separate divers by ability, but they couldn't do it, either because of operational skill or customer base. I assume that they, too, had mostly inexperienced divers in their clientele, because it was rare that I got on a boat that had exclusively experienced divers. On one memorable day, there were 4 of us on the boat. One was a husband and wife (both professionals), me (also a professional), and a diver on his first day after certification. That new diver, of course, became my buddy, and I had to surface with him on each dive when I still had about 1800 PSI. That operator also offered a special deal, an experienced diver program (EDP), for which you paid extra to be on a boat with only experienced divers doing advanced dives. The catch was they had to have enough such people to fill a boat. In three years of diving with that operator, I signed up for that program every time and got exactly two days of EDP diving.

So I finally found an operator who can actually do this. They have enough boats to separate people, and they have enough advanced divers to fill such a boat.

So, I really don't think most operators can do this, or else they would.

 

[ancientdiver]

All I can add to the superb commentary thus far is this folks: new divers should hang out in the Keys for a while. It's part of the US of A, remember? shallow. minimal current. warm water. clear mostly. lots of good operators. new divers should build up some experience. stay in your comfort zone. why is this so esoteric to so many? I saw a similar thing happen in Palau - newly certified couple - first open water dives. And they came all the way from the U.S. they had buoyancy problems, equipment set up problems, equipment falling off in the water problems, then faced with wild currents from mulitiple directions, changing with depth sometimes as one moved along the wall. and some really curious Pacific greys. the couple did one dive and they were done for the week. what were they thinking? probably the most expensive dive in history. Palau on first dive? panic kills divers more than any other cause. but it's hard to panic if one is completely comfortable with one's setting. and one gets that way by gradually and progressively building your experience. if you are not comfortable, get out of the water. that's why there are seats on the boat, remember?